Forums/Z31P/z31-repairs-forums engine-mechanical/Injector Leak AGAIN (URGENT)
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Eyspire: (2009-04-07 03:37:35)
I tend to hate when people post threads with "Urgent" and "Help" in the title. But what's just happened to me yet again was the last thing on my mind, so i'm damn frustrated.
Remember my engine fires last year? Two of them. Both caused from a leaky injector. Well two days ago i discovered that my front (stage) left injector is leaking from the top of the fuel rail down onto the lead… so it's not a faulty injector. Can somebody help me with the following?
From the moment I start the car, it starts to leak, slowly, not spurting. But surely leaking, eventually saturating the lead and eventually the injector. It smells pretty strong, and I must have been driving around with it for days at least - i'd noticed the smell but more or less ignored it.
I have to drive it to the auto-electricians tomorrow morning (last time i fixed it myself by pulling the manifold off and blah blah, but screw that this time around), should it make the drive without catching fire?
The solution? I'm assuming leaking fuel lead/line. Can you change it without removing the intake?
Thanks for any suggestions in advance!
mace350: (2009-04-07 03:41:27)
My opinion is to remove everything, sit down and replace all the 5/16 injection fuel line.(make sure you use fuel injection line)
Careless: (2009-04-07 03:42:42)
you can see the barb there is pretty long (almost to the middle of the hose), you can get an FI-6 or an FI-8 fuel clamp and try and put it on there, but experience tells me you will need an Asian mechanic friend with small hands, a woman with even smaller hands, or remove the manifold.
Alternatively, some ppl do not use the umbrella clamp hats, they use FI-clamps throughout the entire rail.
It's a bitch to get all those injector hoses off, I know that… but I'm glad I replaced mine with all new hose.
DO NOT rule out the possibility of your fuel rail's barb junction being cracked and leaking before it even sees the hose barb.
Eyspire: (2009-04-07 03:51:28)
Good thoughts. Yeah last time i had the fires, i replaced ALL hoses with brand new fuel injection hose. Thanks so far, i'm sure they'll diagnose it tomorrow.
I'm more concerned about the likelyhood of it catching fire on the way to the place in the morning. It's about a 10 min drive. What does it take to ignite…warmed up engine…? dripping on the exhaust lines…? I can't figure out what ignites it and i'm scared i'll make the problem worse. The car drives and performs fine, minus this quite prominent leak.
mace350: (2009-04-07 03:58:54)
I have never lit gas from hot exhaust but that does not mean it is not possible…I would say that the fuel ran down into a spark plug port and caught a spark leak and ignited.
Eyspire: (2009-04-07 11:36:33)
I took the inlet off myself to change it last year, and it took me almost a whole day. I'd never accomplished anything like that as far as mechanics goes before. But i've been told that the labour is a 5 hour job. I don't think this is right, because if i had to do it again, it'd take me half the time, which is about 5 hours. These guys get paid to do it every day. Surely they'd have learnt a few timely tricks.
So i guess if i do it this way, i'm just going to have to be prepared to lose higher sums. I just don't have the energy or confidence that i've diagnosed it right.
ShamWow: (2009-04-07 12:59:50)
A leaking injector is a fire hazard. Carry an extinguisher on your drive to the mechanics.
And this is a repair. Non performance related.
Eyspire: (2009-04-07 15:01:23)
Cheers, i have my extinguisher ready and armed. I hope i wont have to use it! Fingers crossed.
Careless: (2009-04-07 22:23:27)
your spark plugs are not too far from your injectors. god forbid you have a tiny misfire that you don't feel, or a crack in one of the wires, and it happens to ignite a vapor that's just whisking around with every pulse.
DeleriousZ: (2009-04-07 22:27:36)
gas doesn't burn. gas vapors burn.
NissanEgg: (2009-04-08 15:14:17)
Either way, Z's burn. :-(
Careless: (2009-04-10 05:25:37)
hence why i stated vapors. lol.
DeleriousZ: (2009-04-10 08:14:59)
ya'i know, i just like to see my name pop up beside text.
Matt89: (2009-04-11 05:29:28)
Loose the crappy hat garbage and just go with a fuel injection clamp. Problem solved.
Careless: (2009-04-12 23:14:01)
all you would need are about 2 boxes of 10 x FI-6 (i think) clamps, as there are 18 to be used, total.
that will run like 12 bucks, not a bad investment.
Eyspire: (2009-04-13 06:11:27)
Here's a quick update. I've had my Z in the store for 6 days now. They fixed my fuel leak (apparantly there were SEVERAL fuel hoses leaking.. so they decided to take the manifold off). I'm not so sure - i thoroughly looked over the Z before taking it in to ENSURE that didn't happen. Oh well. I have a new problem now.
Three days ago they called me to tell me they'd fixed it all up and she was ready to go. I paid my invoice and started the car. It was idling like a V8, shaking my windows and mirros etc.
I thought, perhaps this was a good thing (maybe i was UNDER idling before i took it in) and drove away. As I pulled out, i noticed an intense lack of power, and accelerated. Nothing.. it was hopeless. The Z had no power at all.. it felt like i was running on 4 out of 6 cyl. So a rough idle and low low power.
I took it straight back, and told them they must have made a mistake putting the manifold back on. He said he'd book it back in and that he thought my car had always driven that way (he didn't test drive it because of the fuel leak). My ass it drives like that, even he should know it's completely undrivable in this state. So now they've had it another three days. It's been easter weekend, so tomorrow I will call up to find out what the shat is going on.
What might it be? I know he'll try to charge me up the yingyang. I'm thinking one of these:
- Vacume leads aren't all on.
- He mixed up the firing order.
- He screwed with the sparkplug sockets and one or two aren't making contact.
Suggestions? thanks!
DeleriousZ: (2009-04-13 15:04:37)
they didn't touch the distributor did they?
they could have mixed up the plug wires, but it's pretty hard to do.
i'm kind of betting on a vacuum leak between the upper and lower intake manifolds, especially if they didn't use a new gasket, or some cheap ass gasket sealer.
Matt89: (2009-04-13 17:40:56)
Why don't you work on your car yourself instead of taking it to shops? Shops suck and will screw your car up.
Eyspire: (2009-04-14 05:30:14)
Because I haven't the fainted clue what the problem is. It's getting spark, electrical current, injector pulse etc. One of the cyl (#1) just isn't firing. He said he thinks it's a mechanical fault. But i'm not so sure, as this problem NEVER existed before I took it in.
So here I am, helplessly waiting for him to call me back. Which probably wont even happen.
Careless: (2009-04-14 14:24:34)
compression test on cylinder one. best place to start if you already checked for spark.
then leak-down, if compression stays flat on the gauge for a minute or so.
Dan50thAE: (2009-04-15 22:27:13)
Fixed.
Don't pay them for all the time they spend dicking around trying to fix the trouble they've caused you.
Eyspire: (2009-04-16 07:38:54)
Ok well i've now asked them to return me my car in the next day or so. They still can't figure out the problem, but he guesses it's now over-fueling. Which would make it a wiring problem. He thinks its from when the car caught fire - but i reminded him this hasn't happened in over a year. So why would a wire suddenly fray itself… I really need to have a look under the bonnet myself.
One mechanic took my engine apart. Another one put it back to together. I'm almost betting the second guy guessed where half the bits and peices went.
TearingRaven: (2009-04-16 18:55:34)
I am with Matt on this one. The only thing that I have not done on my car myself is the installation of the tires, and even then I was watching closely.
There are few things in this world I fear more than a guessing mechanic.
DeleriousZ: (2009-04-16 20:14:37)
shady tree mechanics… gotta love them.
if i were you i'd take a good weekend to go over every cm of the car with the fsm in hand making sure that everything is where it should be, all of the sensors have the correct coloured wires running to them, all that sort of stuff.
Eyspire: (2009-04-17 01:41:07)
I found out the problem.
Somehow ( i have no idea how this even happens, i know nothing about the timing - yet) my timing belt had slipped out a few teeth (about half an inch). So that's the culprit for making it run so botchy. He wants to charge me 6 hours labour to replace the belt and any other fraying components around it. My questions are:
-How long does it really take to change the timing belt?
-How long does it really take to reset the timing belt?
-What makes the teeth jump out of place?
Most importantly, if my belt is old and worn, but not fraying yet, what are the chances of it snapping or happening again. I told him to get stuffed on replacing it all, and just to reset it. Did i do the right thing? (bare in mind i took my car in as a precaution for fire hazzard, and i've come back with a $1000 bill so far, not including this new-found timing issue - so i'm looking for a bandaid solution to be honest).
PLEASE HASTY RESPONSES, thanks!
DeleriousZ: (2009-04-17 01:46:36)
replace the belt. 6 hours is pretty close to what most places quote for a full timing belt job. the actual tensioning of the belt takes about 2 minutes. installation of the belt takes about 30 seconds. getting to the belt and putting it all back together is what takes the time.
an experienced mechanic can probably do it in 4, but they quote from book times. more modified z's (less emissions etc) can take as little as a few hours to do the job, depending on if there are any stuck bolts and how much is replaced.
Eyspire: (2009-04-17 01:54:05)
Thanks, I appreciate that. Yes I do plan on replacing the belt. But i can't fund the labour, so i am wondering if i'll be able to drive around for the next month or so once it's reset (?), and build up some savings. I've just had too many financial burdens hit all at once.
If I build up cash and drive it in the meantime, what are the chances of it slipping again - if i drive like a grandma with a glasseye?
ShamWow: (2009-04-17 03:14:23)
Eyespire, you honestly need to buy some tools and start doing the work yourself. I dont see how owning/driving a Z31 can be enjoyable if your not maintaining it yourself.
The timing belt job is one of those most documented processes on a Z31, with numerous individuals supplying write-ups and information.Its a step by step process, which doesn't involve ultra special tools, and can be completed in a weekend (first time know nothing mechanic). Xenonz31.com has an awesome write-up on doing it with exactly what you will need for the job.
You could do this yourself!
The Z31 is antique. The control systems of the engine are extremely simple and easy. The engine is near bullet proof. The knowledge-base of support is impressive as well. YOU CAN DO IT!
Careless: (2009-04-17 04:11:52)
I agree one-hundred percent.
I even bought a Sham-Wow yesterday in support of that post. (actually I bought it during a close-out sale at a local retailer because Vince is in jail for gettin' sloppy-messy with hookers, but hey some hookers are not too bad lookin', so I bought a Sham-Wow to support his bail so he can get back to the hookers).
anyway.
I have literally taken off and replaced the timing belt like 3 times on my car now, i have it down to an art form. the longest part is allowing the radiator to drain into a bucket if you plan on re-using your coolant (which, after the 3rd time is a huge expense, given our 3 gallon system)
I bought a 20 dollar motorized screw-driver that's 3.6v lithium ion battery, and I use it to remove the timing cover bolts because it's much easier to shove a long socket into the crevices with a 10mm on the end to remove the bolts than using a ratchet. get a Gates Timing belt kit, or a timing belt kit from Courtesy Nissan that has everything required for Z31's… be careful when installing the front seals on cams and balancer, and make sure you line up the marks to the timing plate before taking off the belt. remove the spark plugs before doing so will allow you to turn the engine over easier too.
OH, and to be quite honest, the timing belt installation procedure is NOTHING to worry about, only the torque of the tensioner stud and the tension on the belt is really all there is to it. everything else is eazy-peazy.
Eyspire: (2009-04-17 04:56:10)
You guys are right. I might have fabbed every inch of the Z cosmetically, but as of yet i know next to nothing about the mechanical side of things. I'm average with audio wiring and simple tasks like replacing door motors, spark-plugs and i even managed to change my fuel rail and all injectors over last year. But i've got no good grounds to work on things ever. I live in the Skin cancer capital of the WORLD and my driveway doesn't even let the Z up it. I have to do any work in the middle of a busy street under the sun. So that's why i've always had a subtle interest in mechanics, but no true motivation… If i had a shed and the comfort of shade, and obviously more time to work for long periods, i'd tackle alot more myself i'm sure.
Eyspire: (2009-04-20 07:57:32)
I knew it seemed too coicidental for the crank to have slipped STRAIGHT after they repaired my fuel rail, without them being responsible. I now have my car home safe and sound, running like magic. I went in to inspect the engine bay myself (because a non Z entheusiast has no idea exactly where everything leads and whatnot) and we ended up finding a small chunk of plastic (most likely from my coolant lid) that had obviously found its way in while they had my engine in pieces. It's a great relief to know that my belt isn't on its way out (yet), and I felt bad for the guy who'd spent hours cluelessly looking over it without conclusion so I told him to stick another hour on top of the labour. It ended up costing a whole lot less than it could have, and once again I think i'm that much closer to learning a lesson, and getting my own head around these problems first hand in the future.
Eyspire: (2009-04-27 11:08:16)
Alright, someone eat my words for me. I took the z around a corner after having it back with me for a week. I decided I deserved to give it some gas…only to hear a "whirring" noise, like a quick noisy jet, and then, "pop", out went all power - in mid drive. I lost power steering etc, and was forced onto the side road.
I looked under the bonnet and nothing looked awry, so i tried to start it and i only got a persistent choke, but it wouldn't turn over. I went back earlier and tried again, only to have it start, but run like death.. rough idle… chuggy like a v12, slight and occasional tapping sound (inlike it's missing). Does anyone think that my timing belt might have snapped?
DeleriousZ: (2009-04-27 14:28:50)
the car wouldn't run if the belt snapped. it may have slipped teeth though.
Careless: (2009-04-27 14:44:58)
and v12's sound pretty damn smooth, so if you car sounds like a v12 i'll swap engines with you.
Eyspire: (2009-04-27 16:10:33)
Haha, well it feels like a ride-on-mower with a jackhammer up its arse. I'll see tomorrow, take the timing cover off and have a quick look. I don't know what to expect once I pull it off, i know that region so little, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a dead mermaid caught in it.