Forums/Z31P/z31-performance-upgrade-forums suspension-chassis-and-brakes/Z31 Tension Rod Progress
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tfdave: (2013-07-11 22:41:46)
Finally got to test fit and measure the prototype brackets. I used the Stance s13/s14 tension rod. Stock TC rods have a 6deg bend where it mounts to the lca. After some testing and measuring, for lowered cars, we found that we can add more angle for less binding. There is enough adjustment for at least 2 degs of +/- castor. Most importantly this will get rid of the gooey 100yr old rubber bushings. I'll have the CAD drawing done for the final design by next wk and will go into production right after that.....IF there is demand for this.
So the question is how many are actually going to purchase this?? [archived image: smile.png]
I know you will ask for pricing but it also depends on the qty. Rough estimate $280~330 / pair. I know its not that cheap, but we're using Aurora rod ends($50/ea), high quality cnc aluminum and steel parts.
Let me know if I'm wasting my time or tell me to hurry the F@#k up with this.
Cheers!
G-E: (2013-07-11 23:24:20)
The rockcrawler guys have been very impressed by the longevity of the qa1 kevlar-teflon fabric ones, and subsequently the nylon injected parts, that would save you a bit… fk makes those 5/8 male female opposing thread adjusters and short jam nuts fairly cheaply…
Will you be bending the tension rod piece with the studs to a slightly less angle than the z31 part is normally then? It makes sense to halve the angle on a lowered car
BTW so you guys know, the 88+ control arms use M12 studs on the tension rod, all prior use M10, if these will be for early brackets, stick to M10, if you're making a kit to adapt to both tension rod brackets, maybe do M12 and get people to drill…
Switchback Motions: (2013-07-11 23:31:58)
Will these be only for early model tension rods or will late model be available as well?
adamvann3: (2013-07-11 23:39:15)
Dave you can put me down for a set.
Looks like an 88 shiro boxed in control arm is being used.
michaelp: (2013-07-11 23:45:08)
I'm down!
Parker: (2013-07-12 00:07:18)
Definitely interested since I can't seem to get my hands on a set of 88+ brackets, and the ASCO t-rods have been out of stock for a while now. The money's not really a problem for me. Plus these ones would match my coilovers. [archived image: biggrin.png]
stufferton: (2013-07-12 00:13:23)
I'm in once I get a refund. Ive been waiting on ASCO to do another run for about 5 months.
Racinjitter: (2013-07-12 01:07:42)
Dave, I will take a set off your hands. I need to stop out there and get a bunch of parts from you anyhow.
FrozenZ: (2013-07-12 03:28:44)
Okay, noobish question. I want to get as much out of the handling as I can BUT… for aesthetic reasons I want to stick with a close-to-stock stance and stock wheels, so I am unlikely to ever go coilover.
If I am currently running poly bushings all round, and I do *not* plan to lower the car, will this tighten up the front end to any noticeable degree and/or provide actually useful options for alignment compared to where I am at now? Or are these realistically gonna just be pointless shiny bits if I'm not going with coilovers and getting some low? Looking for an honest opinion or two.
G-E: (2013-07-12 03:35:37)
The adjustability factor might be lost on you and your alignment needs, but it will firm up the front end under braking and hard driving yes…
Careless: (2013-07-12 03:36:59)
considering your preference, you should be saving the 300 dollars, putting it towards coilovers in the future and just running the coilovers at or close to stock height with the poly tension rod bushings.
there are still performance improvements to be had with switching to coilovers that has nothing to do with lowering the car. the option to do so at will is a huge bonus.
300zxturboftw: (2013-07-12 04:58:05)
I'm in for a set installed when I bring the car up in the next few weeks.
adroitcaptor: (2013-07-12 05:14:43)
Realistically I am 4-6mo out but would put a deposit or whatever to prove I am serious. Mine are garbage and need to be replaced anyway. (85t)
What would be included in the purchase? Would it come with everything needed to install?
P.1.M.P.: (2013-07-12 19:35:57)
Interested as well if they are available for the early style brackets.
skeeter: (2013-07-12 19:50:23)
I'm in for a set. Now hurry up!!!!
TearingRaven: (2013-07-12 20:41:01)
Yeah put me down for a set.
P.1.M.P.: (2013-07-13 01:28:27)
Well on closer inspection of the picture, it looks like an early style bracket. Also the way the rod end has an adapter piece on it. Looks nice!
MADMIKE: (2013-07-13 01:42:46)
I am also in, if these are applicable to the later style. Glad to see my early rods and brackets finally went to use [archived image: smile.png]
KevinA: (2013-07-14 19:05:50)
I'm in for a set
lookingoodzxt: (2013-07-15 14:29:41)
I`m in for a set too
tfdave: (2013-07-15 17:55:56)
Thanks for the replies guys. I'll be making M12 version only. M10 guys will have to drill out.
We did test the FK bearings and we found the Aurora bearings to have less friction and higher misalignment angle. We have these bearings made in mass qty, as we use them for all of our rods, so as long as we can utilize them we should be ok with pricing.
The final production version will have more angle than the OEM tc rod, as we found the stock angle to have high misalignment angle at lowered ride height. We're only adding small amount so it doesn't affect the guys at stock 4x4 ride height :P
I'll be working on the CAD drawing this wk and hopefully we can go into production soon.
Thanks!
tfdave: (2013-07-15 18:00:34)
Yes, it'll come with new grade 8 or equivalent hardware for mostly bolt-in affair, except for the M10 guys, will need to drill out the holes.
tfdave: (2013-07-15 18:09:37)
The problem with stock TC rod is that it uses rubber bushings, which are designed to isolate noise and vibrations. They are not designed for performance at all. Your caster will change under braking, cornering, even over bumps. When caster changes, your toe, camber changes as well. Not to mention, loss of feel. I'm designing the TC rods to be solid mount with Aurora rod ends, which will eliminate these problems. You'll also be able to adjust the caster to add/subtract and most importantly even out both sides.
G-E: (2013-07-15 19:47:57)
I was pointing this out specifically because _all_ the early style bracket people will have m10 holes…
If the kit works with both style brackets, then some will have m12, but I understand if they are just easier to produce at m12
Parker: (2013-07-15 19:54:08)
What about the side attaching to the tension rod brackets? The early style and later style are markedly different.
adamvann3: (2013-07-15 21:12:03)
This design is for early style tension rods only, as seen in the original picture in this post.
GE brings up a good point, the early style LCAs did come with M10 holes, which can be easily drilled out. Later Kouki arms came in m12 and also have a reinforcement plate spot welded underneath. My speculation is probably from stress cracking. Its has been documented on here that people have cracked LCA over time (specific one that comes to mind was just lowering springs after a few years of use).
Now with roll center adjusters available, and aftermarket tension rods, this will alleviate a lot off stress seen on the LCA seen from the stock setup (tension rod). With cars starting to get lower, products like this will greatly resolve the moment created by the tension rod setup with the added benefit of adjustability.
Myself, prior to after market tension rod available has always switched to kouki m12 LCA adding in cross bracing and cross brackets ( ie. boxing them in) to compensate for the higher stress. Now with products like these, peace of mind can be had.
Parker: (2013-07-15 21:14:58)
So for a direct bolt-on, one would need newer LCA's but older tension rod brackets? Hah, I guess I'm all set then.
adamvann3: (2013-07-15 21:35:25)
Yes m12 LCAs (stock or stock drilled) and early tension rod mounts.
G-E: (2013-07-15 22:51:58)
Examining my early brackets, I'm finding they are all structurally rusted where the bushings were, I wouldn't trust them with something solid putting full load on them… I hope this kit comes with donuts to sandwich that part, I can't be the only one
michaelp: (2013-07-15 23:11:25)
I doubt you are the only one, you also live in Ontario. Not all Z31s are structurally rusted.
adamvann3: (2013-07-15 23:21:09)
Hmm mine were never rusted, but even so I tend not to use/reuse compromised parts.
Parker: (2013-07-15 23:21:12)
You can get brand new ones from Nissan for the bargain price of about $130 (each!) [archived image: rolleyes.png]
G-E: (2013-07-16 00:07:13)
How have you added anything to this thread with that comment?
Are you saying that under car components on 25yr old cars only rust in ontario?
Or did you misread the statement to assume I referred to the frame rails or quarter panels?
tfdave: (2013-07-16 00:41:58)
Final version will come with spacers so the brackets aren't sitting on the cups.
G-E: (2013-07-16 01:23:41)
Good stuff, can't wait to see it
Augustus Maximus: (2013-07-16 02:23:51)
I just dumped two pretty ones when I swapped to the late style.
87TurboZ: (2013-07-16 17:59:09)
Put me down for a set
ShamWow: (2013-07-17 18:09:48)
Years ago, during my first visit to touge factory, dave sold me a premium set of battle version tension rods for s13. Butter and Dave assured me that this would be an excellent update, despite all of the work required to make them fit.
Those guys were right.
My opinion on solid/adjustable tension rods: Once you have improved the suspension stiffness of a z31 ,this is the next best mod for handling and braking.
I'm excited to see touge factory supporting the z31 community. Thanks Dave!
Spooledup300z: (2013-07-18 17:12:53)
I'm down for a set, thanks Dave for the continued support of our Z's
KevinA: (2013-07-28 15:26:59)
I'm so very excited!
tfdave: (2013-09-12 20:51:23)
Almost there. Just need a Z31 for a test fit!
email me at david@stance-usa.com if you're local
Thank you
G-E: (2013-09-12 22:57:40)
Pretty…
skeeter: (2013-09-12 23:38:26)
Good stuff! Keep the progress going!
Parker: (2013-09-13 12:39:46)
I'm excited about this. I just got a set of the TF adjustable tie rods and they look to be very well-built.
"Red" is a pretty generous description of the color of the pink roll centre adjusters though.
(sorry for the off-topic… keep up the great work, TF!)
300zxturboftw: (2013-09-14 11:19:04)
I have someone to test fit it for you.
joselito76: (2014-04-08 02:13:54)
anything
Butter: (2014-04-08 02:34:59)
http://z31performance.com/showthread…order-Special-!
joselito76: (2014-04-08 02:45:29)
nothing for an 88?
G-E: (2014-04-08 04:39:42)
You can get the early brackets from someone and you can ask TF to make a version with M12 studs for the 88 control arms…
michaelp: (2014-04-08 14:08:11)
Majority of Z31s had the early style, so this was the smart way. Early style tension rod brackets are easy to come by.