Forums/Z31P/z31-performance-upgrade-forums engine-mechanical-aa/300zr engine?
Imported from Z31Performance.com Forums{{#if:VG30ETT| — original post by VG30ETT}}{{#if:2007-03-22 06:33:18|, posted 2007-03-22 06:33:18}}{{#if:56| · 56 post{{#ifeq:56|1||s}}}}{{#if:/Z31performance_archive/forum/z31-performance-upgrade-forums/engine-mechanical-aa/1916-300zr-engine.html|
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VG30ETT: (2007-03-22 06:33:18)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NISSAN-3 … 6410QQrdZ1
Think this would fit in a maxima?
MrwassmanNA2T: (2007-03-22 06:35:35)
So that is the VG30DET… Maxima? I am sure you could find a way to make it fit.
craZed: (2007-03-22 08:00:21)
That add is full of wrong info.
Andrevas: (2007-03-22 08:06:42)
G-E: (2007-03-22 12:53:49)
0 bids
so, back on ebay next month then
87-85turbo: (2007-03-23 03:08:02)
what's the reason that engine is so hard to get,limited production?
craZed: (2007-03-23 04:17:24)
Hopfully the buyer knows what he's getting into.
If it's an s13 owner, he is gonna be pissed.
300zxt: (2007-03-23 06:08:32)
The VG30DE was used in some very run of the mill cars over in Japan too like the Leopard, Gloria and Cedric and other family car junkers.
Oh yeah baby, this thing just screams performance!
300zxt: (2007-03-23 18:30:43)
And cooler! SOHC baby! [archived image: smile.png]
SATAN: (2007-03-23 20:54:49)
Ur out ur damn mind son! [archived image: biggrin.png]
zed-031: (2007-03-24 00:46:17)
If you were redesigning the Z31 from the ground up and had the choice between the VG30ET and the VG30DET, which motor would your run and why.
SATAN: (2007-03-24 01:20:04)
I would run the DET simply because of the fact that you can taylor your LSA the way you want with out having to buy a different grind to do so, You have a higher redline, and you dont have to upgrade all four cams at once. You have more options to play around with. 'Try this on your exhaust cams or try this on just your intake cams. Try this lobe seperation angle, oh that went the opposite of how I wanted well, then try this way. OH you cant because you only have sohc? man that sucks. Well I guess make the best of what you can then.'
zed-031: (2007-03-24 01:59:38)
[quote]SATAN wrote:
If you were redesigning the Z31 from the ground up and had the choice between the VG30ET and the VG30DET, which motor would your run and why.
I would run the DET simply because of the fact that you can taylor your LSA the way you want with out having to buy a different grind to do so, You have a higher redline, and you dont have to upgrade all four cams at once. You have more options to play around with. 'Try this on your exhaust cams or try this on just your intake cams. Try this lobe seperation angle, oh that went the opposite of how I wanted well, then try this way. OH you cant because you only have sohc? man that sucks. Well I guess make the best of what you can then.'
We can pick up VG30DET half cuts in Australia for US$1500. Comes with gearbox, ECU, loom and MAF.
300zxt: (2007-03-24 02:35:19)
DOHC is definately better technology wise, but I think that a SOHC engine that can make snot loads of power definately commands respect! You wont find alot of other SOHC engines that can do the same!
G-E: (2007-03-24 05:43:09)
not true, but you won't find many that need as few mods to get there
SATAN: (2007-03-24 06:02:52)
Its not the lack of cams that is the draw back IN MY EYES. Its the lack of valves and the lack of adjustability. It is possible to do everything the same with sohc (if it had 4 valves) as dohc. However to make ANY changes (Beyond retarding or advancing the whole cam) you would HAVE to get a whole new cam. With DOHC you just have more options to work with.
300zxt: (2007-03-24 06:45:03)
But if you hit 9's and possibly better then what does all that matter? [archived image: wink.png]
RobP3ZXT: (2007-03-24 10:23:34)
because with the same work in a more efficient engine, you'd hit low 9s, high 8s
casner: (2007-03-25 06:35:47)
[quote]zed-031 wrote: [quote=SATAN]
If you were redesigning the Z31 from the ground up and had the choice between the VG30ET and the VG30DET, which motor would your run and why.
I would run the DET simply because of the fact that you can taylor your LSA the way you want with out having to buy a different grind to do so, You have a higher redline, and you dont have to upgrade all four cams at once. You have more options to play around with. 'Try this on your exhaust cams or try this on just your intake cams. Try this lobe seperation angle, oh that went the opposite of how I wanted well, then try this way. OH you cant because you only have sohc? man that sucks. Well I guess make the best of what you can then.'
We can pick up VG30DET half cuts in Australia for US$1500. Comes with gearbox, ECU, loom and MAF.[/quote:1d2f5]
here, you can modify the engine in the car for more power than the DET for less than $1500 :lol: :wink:
300zxt: (2007-03-25 06:39:19)
Well it's not exactly going to work like that if you include the cost of the motor and everything required to make the swap is it?
RobP3ZXT: (2007-03-25 08:08:35)
you're not really seeing my point.
if both motors are doing the same work, the more efficient one will be superior, I don't mean from a money or labor involved sense, but more the acual work being done by the motor.
both motors with the similar setups beyond the heads the dohc will come out on top, imo.
of course, with the money, and time it would take to do this swap, you could easily build a very badass vg30e, but we're all here to play with our big toys, so which ever you choose to power it, is all up to the owner.
zed-031: (2007-03-25 08:28:55)
[quote]casner wrote: [quote=zed-031][quote=SATAN]
If you were redesigning the Z31 from the ground up and had the choice between the VG30ET and the VG30DET, which motor would your run and why.
I would run the DET simply because of the fact that you can taylor your LSA the way you want with out having to buy a different grind to do so, You have a higher redline, and you dont have to upgrade all four cams at once. You have more options to play around with. 'Try this on your exhaust cams or try this on just your intake cams. Try this lobe seperation angle, oh that went the opposite of how I wanted well, then try this way. OH you cant because you only have sohc? man that sucks. Well I guess make the best of what you can then.'
We can pick up VG30DET half cuts in Australia for US$1500. Comes with gearbox, ECU, loom and MAF.
here, you can modify the engine in the car for more power than the DET for less than $1500 :lol: :wink:[/quote:8577f]
Well if ones turbo is screwed and requires a rebuild and ones auto gearbox is as equally screwed the DET becomes a good option :P
300zxt: (2007-03-25 09:26:19)
Oh I get your point and I'm not disagreeing, but when ISN'T money and labor involved in doing an engine build? lol
RobP3ZXT: (2007-03-25 10:08:00)
haha, so true.
which is why I plan to do my vg30det swap way, way later in life, for now I'll just build the foundation of a beast I've already got.
zed-031: (2007-03-27 04:37:46)
Have just organised a VG30DET engine package to be sourced from Japan for me. AU$1200 buys engine, gearbox, ecu, loom and airflow metre [archived image: biggrin.png]
Should arrive end of June/early July. Bring it on [archived image: biggrin.png]
I've been put onto a guy in Adelaide over here in Australia that has just done the swap on his factory turbo Z31 and he said it was dead easy.
300zxt: (2007-03-27 06:11:05)
Easy is one thing, time consuming is what costs money! Oh well just throw money at it like usual! :P Just prey nothing goes wrong with it after the install is complete, because if it does you're screwed lol
zed-031: (2007-03-27 08:04:02)
hahahaha I knew that would stir you up :P
300zxt: (2007-03-27 08:58:38)
Hehe, well I just dont want your whole cash saving endeavor to come back and bite you in the ass. Get REAL familiar with that engine, infact it wouldn't hurt to hunt around for some JDM doods on the Aussie 300zx forums and leech their brains for info. You'll cry if you have to get any major work done to it after you have the swap done, and being JDM it's going to up the costs again paying people to do the work for you.
OK85ZX: (2007-03-27 15:30:39)
How does that make it a good option? turbos and equipment for a 5speed swap are easy to track down, and won't put a hole in your bank account. For some reason, that makes purchasing a used engine with an equally used turbo and transmission for 3x more than you would pay fixing your stuff, then spending all the money and labor and fabrication to get it into the car. Not to mention if anything is wrong with any of the equipment when you get it.
Now, when you could use the same amount of money, with less time/labor fix your car, and put it in the 12's… I'm not seeing how this makes it a DET a "good option" just because your turbo and auto transmission are on their way out ( like alot of z31 owners ).
NissanEgg: (2007-03-27 16:37:20)
Doesn't cost any money if you do it yourself, even if it's time consuming. It also doens't hurt to work at a Nissan dealership and have access to all kinds of crazy tools, not to mention employee discount on parts, like me :lol:
My Z's been sitting in one of my stalls at work going on 2 months now, because of having to wait on performance parts to be delivered.
NissanEgg: (2007-03-27 16:40:13)
Who cares about 1/4 mile times, just put the damn thing in and drive it till the wheels fall off. It would make an interesting conversation piece at the local meet or car show.
OK85ZX: (2007-03-27 21:06:54)
[quote]NissanEgg wrote:
Now, when you could use the same amount of money, with less time/labor fix your car, and put it in the 12's… I'm not seeing how this makes it a DET a "good option" just because your turbo and auto transmission are on their way out ( like alot of z31 owners ).
Who cares about 1/4 mile times, just put the damn thing in and drive it till the wheels fall off. It would make an interesting conversation piece at the local meet or car show.
I was only quoting quarter mile times because it's most widely used when talking about performance. obviously you've missed my point if that's what you're commenting about. Do you think there will be much difference on a road course between the two engines with the same power? Of course not. Did you want me to quote track times in an engine discussion? I was merely stating a number to show how much you could modify the stock engine with, as i said, the same amount of money, and less time/effort. Sure, if you want to spend that much time/money/effort to build something that people will talk about for a night at a car metting, go ahead. Not worth it to me, I enjoy driving, not showing off.
SATAN: (2007-03-27 23:00:09)
[quote]OK85ZX wrote: [quote=NissanEgg]
Now, when you could use the same amount of money, with less time/labor fix your car, and put it in the 12's… I'm not seeing how this makes it a DET a "good option" just because your turbo and auto transmission are on their way out ( like alot of z31 owners ).
Who cares about 1/4 mile times, just put the damn thing in and drive it till the wheels fall off. It would make an interesting conversation piece at the local meet or car show.
Do you think there will be much difference on a road course between the two engines with the same power? Of course not.
Say you have two engines to choose from, VG30E and a VG30DE. They are both making 300hp. You have to choose one for track racing. What ever kind of racing it may be, I would pick the DOHC engine for the fact that it will rev higher giving me a more usable rev range.
300zxt: (2007-03-28 02:06:07)
He wont be…
You also have to consider that this isn't America, JDM engines aren't anythng special here but also 5 speeds for Z31s are almost impossible to find and will fetch upwards of $500 if you can even find one that is which you probably wont. With that said he knows that putting the money into the stock engine will make more power at the end of the day, trust me on that one I've told him lol
But one other thing is that from sources I've read the VG30DET doesn't make much more than the VG30ET does here rated at 255HP vs 230HP in the SOHC so it's going to cost a whole lot of time and money for 25HP!
zed-031: (2007-03-28 02:41:19)
[quote]300zxt wrote:
Doesn't cost any money if you do it yourself, even if it's time consuming.
He wont be…
You also have to consider that this isn't America, JDM engines aren't anythng special here but also 5 speeds for Z31s are almost impossible to find and will fetch upwards of $500 if you can even find one that is which you probably wont. With that said he knows that putting the money into the stock engine will make more power at the end of the day, trust me on that one I've told him lol
But one other thing is that from sources I've read the VG30DET doesn't make much more than the VG30ET does here rated at 255HP vs 230HP in the SOHC so it's going to cost a whole lot of time and money for 25HP!
He will be.... :P
Only thing he won't be doing is custom prop shaft etc.
300zxt: (2007-03-28 02:43:10)
And you think the VG30ET is hard to work on? LOL You're going to have real fun with this, tried reading a japanese wiring schematic? Oh much fun!
zed-031: (2007-03-28 03:39:10)
oi I did year 10 Japanese and passed it :P
300zxt: (2007-03-28 03:47:00)
Haha counting to ten and knowing how to answer the phone in Japanese wont help you read that [archived image: wink.png]
OK85ZX: (2007-03-28 19:53:16)
[quote]SATAN wrote: [quote=OK85ZX][quote=NissanEgg]
Now, when you could use the same amount of money, with less time/labor fix your car, and put it in the 12's… I'm not seeing how this makes it a DET a "good option" just because your turbo and auto transmission are on their way out ( like alot of z31 owners ).
Who cares about 1/4 mile times, just put the damn thing in and drive it till the wheels fall off. It would make an interesting conversation piece at the local meet or car show.
Do you think there will be much difference on a road course between the two engines with the same power? Of course not.
Say you have two engines to choose from, VG30E and a VG30DE. They are both making 300hp. You have to choose one for track racing. What ever kind of racing it may be, I would pick the DOHC engine for the fact that it will rev higher giving me a more usable rev range.
Maybe I'm ignorant, but i don't understand how heavier/more rotating mass, keeping with a 3 litre V6, with generally the same functionality is going to allow you to rev higher?
NissanEgg: (2007-03-28 20:48:33)
What I was getting at, screw the 1/4 numbers, just do it. THat's what I would do, something a little different than the norm.
As for not costing any money if you do it yourself, you save on labor and etc. by doing the actual work yourself.
2+2turbo: (2007-03-28 22:50:44)
[quote]OK85ZX wrote: [quote=SATAN][quote=OK85ZX][quote=NissanEgg]
Now, when you could use the same amount of money, with less time/labor fix your car, and put it in the 12's… I'm not seeing how this makes it a DET a "good option" just because your turbo and auto transmission are on their way out ( like alot of z31 owners ).
Who cares about 1/4 mile times, just put the damn thing in and drive it till the wheels fall off. It would make an interesting conversation piece at the local meet or car show.
Do you think there will be much difference on a road course between the two engines with the same power? Of course not.
Say you have two engines to choose from, VG30E and a VG30DE. They are both making 300hp. You have to choose one for track racing. What ever kind of racing it may be, I would pick the DOHC engine for the fact that it will rev higher giving me a more usable rev range.
Maybe I'm ignorant, but i don't understand how heavier/more rotating mass, keeping with a 3 litre V6, with generally the same functionality is going to allow you to rev higher?
the extra valves …
where the SOHC will have low end torque ,the DOHC will lack . and where the DOHC will have high rev torque , the SOHC will lack .
atleast that's what i think he ment anyway . all i know is that i can build a SOHC to kick a DOHC's ass for alot less than vice versa.
SATAN: (2007-03-29 00:24:04)
just look at the stock redline of the two motors. Typically dual over head cam engines can rev higher due to the LIGHTER valves in the valve train. Yes you have twice as much of it, but all of the components are smaller and lighter weight.
Irronically,here is a comparison of the two engines. This was the very first link that came up when I googled sohc vs. dohc :shock:
Either way, here it is.
http://paultan.org/archives/2005/06/22/ … lvetrains/
300zxt: (2007-03-29 01:22:19)
That's nice and all but these JDM engines are a real pain in the ass to work on, alot of people know nothing about them and parts for them are hard to come by and expensive! And sadly all of the online resources about them are written in Japanese, who would of thought? :P
SATAN: (2007-03-29 01:33:21)
Its all just nuts and bolts man.
300zxt: (2007-03-29 03:03:56)
As I said before, ever seen a Japanese wiring schematic? Not cool! lol
SATAN: (2007-03-29 03:08:48)
Stand alone, screw all that oem crap.
300zxt: (2007-03-29 03:13:08)
That pretty much screws his whole cash saving scheme though lol Then tuning and dyno time, oh dont forget the 100k service which he "neglected" to mention which is due on it *cough* another grand or so there in parts lol Custom driveshaft aswell is another thing, oh the list just grows and grows huh Matt? hehe
I'm just teasing him, we've spoken lots about this and I've clearly told him it's a cool swap but it's not exactly cost efficient or "easy" compared to modifying the stock engine but I'm looking foward to seeing the end result none the less.
SATAN: (2007-03-29 03:15:14)
Oh, see. This thread kinda got high jacked. I was talking about just the comparisons between the two engines, not wether it would be a good idea for him [archived image: redface.png]ops:
300zxt: (2007-03-29 03:22:17)
Oh haha, sorry about that! I think it's fairly obvious that DOHC is technologically superior, Nissan wouldn't go backwards on something like that.
It has been done before, another guy in Australia did it infact and he used twin turbos. Why he didn't just go with a VG30DETT from a Z32 I'm not really sure but it came out looking pretty nice.
[archived image: 344901253_131debf1a1.jpg]
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63979750@N00/
It cost him ALOT of money though, more than what you've spent on your car SATAN and he aint at the power levels you are that's for sure. I think that's one of the main points to consider, regardless of how much better DOHC is. Another thing too look how damn tight that thing is in there! No room for nothing else really…
OK85ZX: (2007-03-29 04:16:03)
I wouldn't use stock redline much in the way of an arguement. Yes some of it is lighter and smaller, but the larger portion of the weight, such as crank/pistons/rods/cams are going to be nearly identical in weight. Also, there is more than enough ways to modify either engine to make them rev way out of their powerbands, such as lightening the crank, lighter moving parts, balancing, valve springs etc.. and as far as upper and lower powerbands go, you can control that on either engine (or any for that matter) by adjusting timing/cams.
4 valves is always going to have an advantage, but with built internals on both engines, i doubt you see more than a negligible difference road racing.
SATAN: (2007-03-29 04:30:37)
[quote]OK85ZX wrote:
just look at the stock redline of the two motors. Typically dual over head cam engines can rev higher due to the LIGHTER valves in the valve train. Yes you have twice as much of it, but all of the components are smaller and lighter weight.
Irronically,here is a comparison of the two engines. This was the very first link that came up when I googled sohc vs. dohc :shock:
Either way, here it is.
http://paultan.org/archives/2005/06/22/ … lvetrains/
I wouldn't use stock redline much in the way of an arguement. Yes some of it is lighter and smaller, but the larger portion of the weight, such as crank/pistons/rods/cams are going to be nearly identical in weight. Also, there is more than enough ways to modify either engine to make them rev way out of their powerbands, such as lightening the crank, lighter moving parts, balancing, valve springs etc.. and as far as upper and lower powerbands go, you can control that on either engine (or any for that matter) by adjusting timing/cams.
Yes but keep in mind you can do that to both engines. You said it yourself. "but the larger portion of the weight, such as crank/pistons/rods/cams are going to be nearly identical in weight." So therefore the bottom end is irrelevant. Not to mention that the stock bottom end will handle 7500rpm, maybe more, thus making the bottom end even more irrelevant.
Wether it be stock or modified equally on both engines, the 4 valve will be able to rev higher and make more power doing so, giving you a wider usable power band, which will DEFFINATLY help in ANY motor sport. Four valve is just better, End of story.
Also, ANY difference in any racing is ALWAYS negligable :wink:
zed-031: (2007-03-29 05:05:11)
Oi some of us have day jobs dammit, give me shit about this when I'm around to stick up for myself :P
300zxt: (2007-03-29 06:27:13)
Hehe! [archived image: smile.png]
OK85ZX: (2007-03-29 20:26:44)
What I meant, by showing that the bottom end, was that the vast majority of the rotating mass in the engine is going to be nearly identical, which the intention of me saying that was to lead to the conclusion that the rest of the rotating mass is going to be a very small portion of the weight. The differences are going to be; cam gears, cams, valves, valvesprings (more specifically, more valvesprings causing more power needed to counteract the extra pressure caused by twice as many valvesprings). All of these things that are different between the two engines, the DOHC is going to have twice as many as the SOHC engine. stock vs stock weight, and fully modded vs fully modded weight, I don't see the engine having twice as many of the same components having a lighter rotating mass. The numbers may be alot closer stock vs stock, but once everything is upgraded/lighter, I see the DOHC being heavier (note: by as I said earlier, a very small portion of the rotating mass).
I still don't see the dohc being able to "rev higher" than the sohc. Powerband is a different story, of course the dohc is going to have a naturally higher powerband, and not as good of a bottom end.
zed-031: (2007-03-29 22:40:40)
The DOHC engines max torque figure is 253 lb-ft at 3200rpm.
SATAN: (2007-03-29 22:41:56)
4 valves rev higher. I'm not going to explain to you why. I posted a link that goes into it briefly and the was the very first one that popped up, not to mention the MANY others that pop up while searching that will explain why.
Now the "not as good of a bottom end" however, is neglagible due to the fact that you dont use bottom end power in any racing really, not that I can think of anyways [archived image: redface.png]ops: . Its allways above 4000rpms which is where the 4 valve shines. Also, a 4 valve is not really that bad at low end either.
OH, here I've got a good link for you, I dont know if you saw the discussion a while ago about DOHC vs SOHC, But incase you didnt catch the thread, here it is. http://z31performance.com/forum/vie … light=dohc