Forums/Z31P/z31-performance-upgrade-forums engine-management/Megasquirt info
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tmbg: (2006-06-09 14:41:34)
Holy cow, how is it I've gone a year without finding this forum? :/
Anyway, I posted this on z31.com, but I don't think people really care so much over there. This crowd will probably like it better.
It's still a work in progress, I'm writing as much as I can as fast as possible, hopefully I'll have all the install related info done by the weekend.
http://www.z-toys.com/megasquirt
Steve88t: (2006-06-09 16:35:12)
What is this crap? Take that to zcar.com!
Nah this crowd will take to the info FAR better than z31.com or zcar. I didn't realize you didn't know about it or I'd have mentioned it to you. Sorry bout that.
FYI anyone who doesn't know tmbg, he is really putting time into the MS stuff and has some really good info to contribute here.
Jason84NA2T: (2006-06-09 16:43:50)
Very nice! Thanks for putting your time into writing it all up, it's very easy to read and comprehend. Someone might be able to pull some of the voltages for sensors like CHTS and coolant temp from the stock ECU via the data in nistune, should make your life a little easier.
I can put a link to your write-up in the user links sticky if you are ok with it.
Nick (Blozup) is doing the same thing, maybe you guys can share knowlege?
grahfz: (2006-06-09 16:48:58)
I was over playing with it last night. It's pretty cool.
tmbg: (2006-06-09 16:51:40)
Yea, I saw Blozup's post right after I posted mine.
feel free to put it in the sticky. I want to try to make this info as available as possible; there's a dearth of good Z31 info in the MS community.
One of the reasons I chose MS is because I'm a programmer by trade, and I dabble in hardware. I hope to be able to extend MS to add some nice features, for instance grahfZ told me about a feature that MSnSE has, traction control rev limiting, and I'm thinking about adapting it to work with MS2.
Also, this has been around for almost a year now, but I dunno how many people outside of the chatroom have actually seen it, but have you guys seen the boost gauge that I designed and built? It's on the front page at http://www.z-toys.com/
BLOZ UP: (2006-06-11 15:31:53)
Damn there are a lot of typos in mine.
We should collaborate some, or something. At least link each other's pages.
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matthunter1448: (2006-06-23 08:14:11)
if theres anyone out there i would like to know more cause i really thought about doing this just need help or to know how to fully do it wiring and programming and what exactly to buy for it so and anybody could help please help thanks other than that u both have some great info but i need more
JoCkeWe: (2006-08-02 23:28:30)
How did you guys manage to get MS to go with the distributor and control the ignition?
When i started to wire up my MS I thought I'd let the ECU control spark, and MS to control fuel. But if there's an easy way to make MS take care of them both I'd be more then happy! I'm running MS V3.0
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BLOZ UP: (2006-08-03 00:50:14)
It's very easy. You can use the stock ignitor and coil and such.
If you already have the CAS hacked to feed MS the tach signal, then all you need to do is select the FIDLE output as a spark output (or, I believe the v3 board and updated software allows a seperate dedicated spark output pin so you can save you fast idle output). You hook that to the base of the ignitor…
In the (1984) FSM, the ignitor is labeled as the "Power Transistor", and it is the green wire with a black stripe (G/B) going to the transistor next to the coil.
Just hook that up to the output from MS, however, you will need to hook up a +5v pullup resistor to basically amplify the signal from MS enough to be able to trigger the coil.
Here is a diagram from my site: http://blozup.com/ms.php#vehiclewiring
JoCkeWe: (2006-08-06 09:45:54)
Blozup-> Thank you! My car is now running with MS!
Now i have to figure out how o get the stock tachometer working again.
JoCkeWe: (2006-09-01 09:23:46)
Anyone have an idiot-proof write-up on how to get that %&/"#ä tachometer working again?
- lol:
BLOZ UP: (2006-09-22 17:37:25)
Mine worked, what did you do differently to the tach wiring? What year car?
SATAN: (2006-09-25 00:00:39)
with the TECII you either have to get a Tach adaptor from msd or you have to use the gpo to control the tach
ngrimm: (2006-11-01 06:00:39)
You gents have done a great job documenting this. I managed to muddle thru getting mine running but it would have been nice to have had this info specific to the z31. For me the most difficult part was the wiring harness since I didn't have enough different colored wires and had to use various colors of shrink tubing to be able to identify them. I think next time I would buy one of the pre-made harnesses. So far I have had mine to where I could rev it up a little before I pulled the engine so now I've got to figure out how to hook it all up again. [archived image: smile.png] Norm
BLOZ UP: (2006-12-19 02:13:50)
MS > *
Can't wait to get the 240z running on it.
tmbg: (2006-12-19 17:15:11)
I've been back working on my setup some more… my new turbo / injectors / fuel pump are all in, and the car's running and driveable on the MS with the new setup, but it's pretty piss-poorly tuned under any sort of load.
I redid some of the ignition stuff, check my page for details.
Liam86t: (2006-12-20 07:29:39)
Thanks for adding info to your site. Please keep updating it as you progress. Im getting an MSI v3 kit and stim kit for xmas from Santa so im sure il be using your and Blowz up experience as i go. Iv read a lot of info, but im sure il still encounter many problems along the way.
Just thought id let you know that people read it
cheers, Liam
tmbg: (2006-12-20 14:24:30)
My tune is getting much better… the newer versions of MegaLogViewer have a neat feature which will analyze your VE table and make changes based on the datalog. I did about 5 runs, allowing it to update the table every time, and now it's MUCH more drivable. My ignition table is still way off, so it bucks and backfires out the tailpipe around 3500-5000rpm under 9psi of boost or so. I have to work on getting the ignition maps just so, then fine tune the VE maps, but I think it's very close! [archived image: biggrin.png]
Liam86t: (2006-12-22 05:50:17)
cool, i didnt know it could update the VE itself, thats good.
How long did it take you to get to a daily driveable stage? I plan to splice into my existing harness at the computer, and put two connector plugs so i can plug in the MS and tune, then easily plug back to the stock ECU if i need to drive the car to work and the MS isnt tuned properly.
I hope to have the MS tuned to a state where its fine as a daily driver in a couple of months, by playing with it each weekend and in my spare time using a wideband. Then when i have it running reasonably well, take it to a dyno for fine tuning. Is this realistic?
tmbg: (2006-12-22 22:14:10)
It's still not quite daily drivable, but it's definitely drivable. I drove it 40 miles yesterday.
It runs fine out of boost, but in boost it's still running goofy.
BLOZ UP: (2006-12-24 15:06:03)
I had mine daily driving in a day. Wasn't tuned, all the tables were rich as hell. I also had a 6psi spring in my wastegate, just to be safe. It drove like a champ, even though I only got like 8 mpg. Not that that had anything to do with my lead foot or anything.
Liam86t: (2006-12-28 11:24:59)
cool, im wiring my MS up at the moment.
What communication are you guys using? My laptop doesnt have a db9 serial, so at this stage im doing all my testing on my desktop. Im waiting till after the holidays to see if my laptop ive got at work has a db9. Those USB to serial convertors are $70 in the shops here.
Jason84NA2T: (2006-12-28 19:17:55)
See if they will ship to you down under:
http://www.zzperformance.com/grand_prix … php?id=556
Liam86t: (2006-12-29 12:11:30)
reading the megamanual, it sound as if there are some configuration probs with USB to serial. Are you using one with nistune?
They are selling for AU$3.99 on ebay here, at that price il give it a go.
Liam86t: (2006-12-31 00:15:18)
Hey tmbg,
Were ther any disadvantages to running without the IGBT HCID circuit and using the z31 PT? I really want to keep my tach for now, because my remote start and turbo timer run off it. I will be leaving the stock ecu in until i have a decent tune, and then il switch to driving the coil from MS and then pull a tach signal of the coil for the remote start and maybe find a way to get the factory tach working.
Did you have any issues using the z31 PT?
tmbg: (2007-01-03 14:51:15)
it ran with the stock transistor. I don't THINK any of my issues were caused by using it, but I'm not sure.
I was driving the coil directly for awhile, now I'm driving an MSD 6A. I was able to get the tach working in all instances, when driving the coil I took the tach signal right off the coil, and now that I'm running the MSD, I have to pull it from the MS spark output (the white wire which drives the MSD box).
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BLOZ UP: (2007-04-25 03:20:56)
I just got a Megasquirt II kit (v3.0 board + MS components + MS II daughtercard).
I will be wiring it up to my VG30 in my s30 in a couple weeks.
BLOZ UP: (2007-06-09 14:28:58)
Here's a diagram of how to connect the MS Relay board (and thus, MS itself) to the stock Nissan CAS (in the dizzy). Ignore the rest of it if you want, it's project specific.
hoohaa: (2007-07-02 04:24:27)
I'm not quite sure if I should start a new thread for this, or if I should post it here. I'm thinking since no one else has started a new MS thread I will just post here.
What have you guys done for idle control on the VG30? I have a pathfinder manifold with the stock Nissan AAC and IACV. I want to retain the "timed heater" component, since it's completely independent of the ECU, but I really want to run the IACV through MS2Extra. The FSM makes it sound like a PWC controlled valve, but I am really not sure of what pulse width values to feed it. I guess I could set it until it gets hot and then back it off, but it someone has already been down this road I'd much rather learn from their experience.
Another question: is anyone else running MS2Extra on the V3.0 board? If so, did you have to jumper a +12v feed to JP4? I did this and the MSII started having all sorts of problems. I removed the jumper and it all runs fine, even with MS2Extra code. I'm not sure I understand why this happened, but if I don't find out soon I'm going to the MSefi boards for help.
I am at the wiring harness stage and I am really stressing. I've been way too tempted to go "balls out" on a lot of the silly details and other things, and I already have, like polishing stupid stuff like the fuel rails and the fuel pressure regulator, jumping from a conservative 250 HP goal to prepping for 400+ hp, wanting to ditch the stock ignition (which is a GREAT ignition system) for Ford EDIS just cause I can, spending too much time researching boost control through MegaSquirt, etc. etc… I guess that's what getting bitten by the MegaSquirt bug does to you. It's way too easy to allow yourself to learn in this community. :lol:
Also, I don't think the MSII v3.0 board needs to use the stock power transistor, since the v3.0 board already has one. It's one less piece of stock crap on the intake manifold. Please jump in and correct me if I'm wrong about this, I need to know since I'm about to drive the coil directly.
BLOZ UP: (2007-07-02 16:42:29)
No, you don't need it. Actually, you shouldn't use it if you are using MSII's module. Bad things may happen.
hoohaa: (2007-07-02 18:32:34)
[quote]BLOZ UP wrote:
I'm not quite sure if I should start a new thread for this, or if I should post it here. I'm thinking since no one else has started a new MS thread I will just post here.
What have you guys done for idle control on the VG30? I have a pathfinder manifold with the stock Nissan AAC and IACV. I want to retain the "timed heater" component, since it's completely independent of the ECU, but I really want to run the IACV through MS2Extra. The FSM makes it sound like a PWC controlled valve, but I am really not sure of what pulse width values to feed it. I guess I could set it until it gets hot and then back it off, but it someone has already been down this road I'd much rather learn from their experience.
I haven't used any idle valvles. I used the throttle stop. Never had any starting problems, ONCE I finished fine tuning the cold start and after-start enrichment values. Try msefi.com, or one of the many other billion MS forums now… I think there's a separate msextra one now. I remember some maxima guys getting theirs to work… somewhere.
I haven't tried the extra code yet. If it works now, though… who cares?
I will start searching for maxima IACV use with MSII.
Yes it does work now, but it's only being run on the stim board now. If that processor needs +12v then I want to make sure it has it. I don't understand why the MS2Extra folks would specify this mod if it was not necessary.
BLOZ UP: (2007-07-02 21:43:55)
Is this one of the mods that you cannot put the MSII on the stim afterwards?
hoohaa: (2007-07-03 02:48:02)
I never read that. The MS2Extra manual doesn't mention any problems using the stim board, as far as I remember.
Edit: Matt Cramer replied to a thread I have elsewhere about this issue and mentioned that I should have used S12(c) for my 12v hot feed to the MSII daughterboard. I have no idea why the MS2Extra manual says jumper D9 to JP4 if this is true. Matt also mentioned that the 12v jumper is only for driving stepper motors, which I don't have on my vehicle. So the jumper is staying off of the v3.0 board.
Steve88t: (2007-07-10 04:24:48)
Anyone played with traction control yet?
http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/antirev.html
I have a use for it on a car where it would control ignition only. (mechanical alchohol injection) The ecu itself is not explicitly illegal, but I know traction control is. *sshhhh*
hoohaa: (2007-07-10 21:36:48)
I want to run traction control. I've got my hands full with the basic stuff still though. There are a few guys that are pretty happy with it over on the MS2Extra board.
matthunter1448: (2008-01-14 06:25:06)
any one here any good at putting a a board together?
evildky: (2008-08-21 03:44:11)
I know this thread is long dead but has nayone got theirs running well with 12x12 maps? I had mine runnign great using the 8x8 maps on the old magnus MSNS code but since upgrading tot he o29y4 with the 12x12 maps I just can't seem to get the bottom end pulling like ti did before, the higher resolution also allows for me to mess it up in more places [archived image: wink.png]
matthunter1448: (2008-08-22 02:38:20)
we had my brothers running pretty good till something went wrong but i liked it it was running great all the way threw the rpms and boost
BLOZ UP: (2008-08-23 15:19:04)
if you still have your 8x8 or whatever, interpolate it by hand.
F/A 300: (2008-09-20 21:31:20)
Sorry this thread might be dead but I have a few questions.
1) Where can you find new connectors for the injectors, o2 sensor, tps, etc… I have searched everywhere with no luck. Mine are all breaking or have broken.
2) They have come out with a MAP sensor use with the MS. If I install this I can just pull out my MAF and go from there correct?
Sorry for the questions engine electronics is not a strong point for me!
onefast87: (2008-09-22 21:11:22)
yes remove the airflow meter and run a vacuum like to the intake. easy
F/A 300: (2008-09-22 21:30:24)
Alright and that isn't going to get messed up because of the boost? It should account for the boost being there.
Its going to be awhile before I can even do this though. Kinda got in trouble and owe some money around now.
BLOZ UP: (2008-09-23 16:56:58)
MS has always supported a MAP sensor. Get rid of that MAF trash and don't look back. Don't even think about calibrating it to use the stock MAF, which you could.
F/A 300: (2008-09-25 04:14:36)
Alright that sounds good to me. I can repipe the turbo intake and maybe get myself the flow thru engine mount. Thanks guys good looking out.
protomor: (2008-11-18 14:40:14)
I might be late but I get all my stuff from DIYAutotune.com They even have pre built setups and can custom make one for you.
F/A 300: (2008-11-20 14:26:58)
Nah not late buy DIY is where I am getting all my stuff from. I really like the way things are set up there.
protomor: (2008-11-20 14:37:55)
DIY is great. I talk to both the owner Jerry and Matt all the time about questions and such. They know what they are talking about and are more than willing to help you figure out what you need. They helped me on tuning once and they really didn't have to.
Black 89Turbo: (2009-12-27 06:37:27)
I see no one has posted in this thread in over a year. i was thinking about buying this for the Z but idk what it might need or anything about megasquirt. im not new to ems by any means just never messed with megasquirt. can someone give me some pointers on megasquirt.
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=878775
BLOZ UP: (2009-12-27 14:51:40)
svmark: (2010-01-25 19:44:59)
Figure I would add my two cents in here.
This wiring diagram is a modified megasquirt 2 diagram for using a DIYautotune wire bundle GM IAT, stock nissan CTS. With a MSD 6a box I am not sure if I will need the tach adapter as of yet since I have a few more things to button up before trying to start it. Also at of the moment I will not be using any IAC or Fidle.
[archived image: th_megasquirtmsd_z31.gif]
zachheldt: (2010-03-12 22:48:12)
i know that im new to the forums and to z31s in general but the ztoys link is dead and would like to know if i did do the swap i want to do way in the future (6 months to a year from now) if id be able to download a base fuel map from one of you. lemme know.
zachheldt: (2010-10-01 06:30:57)
very cool. well im planning on dumping in megasquirt next semester sooo…
SOOLAR: (2010-10-28 01:57:33)
huh, hope to have step by step megasquirt wiring for Z31 soon. I'll buy megasquirt II v3.57 this week. :-(
Coahman: (2010-11-21 07:11:05)
I'll be installing megasquirt 2 in my car sometime in the next month or so. Its going in as part of my 400 hp rebuild [archived image: smile.png] The websites listed look very helpful
Coahman: (2010-11-25 05:00:28)
So if you can use the stock ignition system, basically all I need megasquirt for is the fuel/air mixture? What about the idle control valve?
Matt89: (2010-11-25 06:45:29)
Read this http://www.megamanual.com/index.html then post if you have any questions.
BLOZ UP: (2010-11-27 17:25:50)
All you need to get it running is to hook up the injectors, grounds, IAT, CLT, spark output, MAP, and CAS. Everything else is just a luxury.
datsun1200_vg30et: (2010-11-27 19:17:33)
Yes you can pick up the power transistor tach signal to megasquirt pin 24, with the 1k ohm resistor to 12v pull up, upgrade to TPS (under 88 z31), wire the other 3 sensors CLT, IAT, O2 and that's it.
For fuel only!
rambis: (2010-11-27 20:08:31)
Really glad to see z31 guys doing Ms.I am in the process of MS .I am doing everything from assembly to tune on my own.Hope to see more on this forum about MS.
srsands: (2011-02-16 02:33:11)
Hmmm....going to buy megasquirt soon and well, all posts are old and all informative links are down? [archived image: smile.png] But I read it all.
vg30dimeguy: (2011-03-15 03:55:49)
Ok well, I havent been on here and still no new MS news for the vg???WTF…really its a dead subject??? Well can anyone tell me one…will MS use my knock sensor? And the next uestion is there is a power transistor used for the stock ignition......do I need it anymore? I had it hooked up with my MSD but with MS and not isusinfg the facftory ecu I dunno
rambis: (2011-03-15 13:00:32)
Ms has its own transistors ,pin 24 hooks up to -coil.
As for knock sensor,maybe MS3.
utah hawkeye: (2011-04-26 02:37:20)
So, Cory, after you diseminate (sp?) the mega manual hook up w/ me and we'll do it together. The manual has a LOT of info.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-09-06 15:00:39)
Im wondering how the stock CAS was used with the megasquirt? Matt at DIYautotune said the firmware dosn't support the stock CAS triggering. Just bought a brand new Ms3w/Ms3x expantion. He said we would either have to run a trigger wheel or try out there new firmware they are experimenting on.........??
BLOZ UP: (2011-09-06 15:30:25)
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/ignition.html#opto
Careless: (2011-09-06 16:11:10)
do you guys drill a reference hole for cyl 1 TDC that isn't a trailing or leading edge type slot like that which AEM seems to work better with rather than the progressively wider slots and the 180 degree marks, or do you guys have no idea what I'm talking about.
apparently a 1/8th reference mark drilled into the cas disc does a better job than the standard square slot?
BLOZ UP: (2011-09-06 16:39:41)
I never had a need to using batch injection.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-09-07 00:42:35)
Yes, V3 firmware dosn't support it. I think thats ass backwards. I guess im going to be the pig and test out some new firmware stuff thats never been tested before for the vg30 lol. Not set in stone yet but i think thats were its going
Wastegate: (2011-09-23 21:18:15)
Anyone mind hosting a base map for a bone stock 85 turbo 5 speed on MS2? Blozup had one however he took his awesome site down lol. Please host your write up again or your new one as it was extremely helpful!!
datsun1200_vg30et: (2011-09-24 02:23:18)
what firmware do you have?
Black 89Turbo: (2011-09-24 14:50:24)
Can someone Re-post the wiring diagram for the dizzy? i can't read whats on page 3
Careless: (2011-09-24 15:03:28)
zoomed in, does this help?
Black 89Turbo: (2011-09-25 14:37:38)
Not really. If im reading it correctly it should say this i guess lol.
BLOZ UP: (2011-09-25 15:54:54)
60 degree signal, G/B - Green w/Black stripe, not G/O. It goes to pin 24, after being pulled up to 12v from 5v. That's the purpose of the resistor.
The G/W is the 360 degree signal, and is not currently used.
The other two are power and ground for the optical sensor itself.
rambis: (2011-09-25 19:19:03)
Why not go edis?
Black 89Turbo: (2011-09-26 03:26:27)
Cant do some sweet shit with EDIS. Also there is some stuff being developed atm for the Z
Black 89Turbo: (2011-09-26 03:32:03)
Sweet! Thanks for clearing that up man!. Im just going to put the resistor in line, not on the board. Im to scared to open it up atm lol. Now im not going to ask about the TPS wiring, Ill study the wiring schmatics in the FSMunless you really want to tell me[archived image: wink.png]
BLOZ UP: (2011-09-26 12:29:08)
The TPS is easier. 3 wires, all can come from MS. MS provides the 5v reference, signal, and ground.
I can't remember the wire colors, but the ground should be obvious, and the FSM will let you know as well.
You need an automatic TPS though, the one with the 3 wire harness coming off of it. The switch portion of it is not used.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-09-26 13:18:15)
I have a 3 wire plug. It does not have the 3 wire grey oval connector onto it. But the main plug is a 3 wire, thats what i was banking on lol. just have to disifer what 2 wires do what, grounds obvious.
BLOZ UP: (2011-09-26 13:23:00)
[quote]Black 89Turbo wrote:
The TPS is easier. 3 wires, all can come from MS. MS provides the 5v reference, signal, and ground.
I can't remember the wire colors, but the ground should be obvious, and the FSM will let you know as well.
You need an automatic TPS though, the one with the 3 wire harness coming off of it. The switch portion of it is not used.
I have a 3 wire plug. It does not have the 3 wire grey oval connector onto it. But the main plug is a 3 wire, thats what i was banking on lol. just have to disifer what 2 wires do what, grounds obvious.[/quote:34y980d7]
The TPS should have ~6 wires total or 6 connections. 2-3 on the sensor itself and then a 3 wire harness coming out of it. The latter is what you need.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-09-26 17:21:59)
The TPS should have ~6 wires total or 6 connections. 2-3 on the sensor itself and then a 3 wire harness coming out of it. The latter is what you need.
It is not a auto TPS. Just 3 wires to the sensor itself. does not have the 3 wire harness for the automatic stuff. What is latter?
michaelp: (2011-09-26 17:24:21)
[quote]BLOZ UP wrote: [quote=Black 89Turbo:2traphq1]
The TPS is easier. 3 wires, all can come from MS. MS provides the 5v reference, signal, and ground.
I can't remember the wire colors, but the ground should be obvious, and the FSM will let you know as well.
You need an automatic TPS though, the one with the 3 wire harness coming off of it. The switch portion of it is not used.
I have a 3 wire plug. It does not have the 3 wire grey oval connector onto it. But the main plug is a 3 wire, thats what i was banking on lol. just have to disifer what 2 wires do what, grounds obvious.[/quote:2traphq1]
The TPS should have ~6 wires total or 6 connections. 2-3 on the sensor itself and then a 3 wire harness coming out of it. The latter is what you need.[/quote:2traphq1]
Only 85-89 automatic cars have the extra wire harness.
BLOZ UP: (2011-09-26 19:59:44)
You need the one from an 85-89 automatic.
[archived image: main.jpg]
Don't hook up to the black box, as it's just a switch. It will give you "undesired" results. You need that 3 wire harness coming out to hook up to.
Or just run with MAPdot enrichment.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-09-26 21:47:37)
Don't hook up to the black box, as it's just a switch. It will give you "undesired" results. You need that 3 wire harness coming out to hook up to.
Or just run with MAPdot enrichment.
gotcha. i was wondering if the tps was a "switch" style 0 or 100% or 0, 1,2,3,4,5% ect… Thanks for clearing that up. i found some of your old maps and ill start with them. I have nothing to start by besides that.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-09-27 00:30:19)
BLOZ UP-
Do you still have the writeup you did?
slingo: (2011-10-01 03:26:25)
Bump, this would be helpful for me as well, have an MS2/PCB3.57 running extra 3.1.1 soon to be in my 84t, if you guys could repost the original articles that would be amazing.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-10-07 02:23:49)
it would be awesome. I tried to get diagrams but never could.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-10-07 14:00:27)
What does *pin 36* run to with the stock coil? or is it not used?
BLOZ UP: (2011-10-07 16:26:35)
If you are using the MS coil driver, it connects to the coil.
Otherwise, it connects to the Nissan/Aftermarket coil driver.
I had good success with the Nissan coil driver (ignitor, I think the FSM calls it), since it is external and has it's own heat sink (at least on an 88t). I used 2.0ms as the dwell time, nothing else worked as well.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-10-07 19:17:29)
Thats what im after. using the stock coil driver/ignitor. located on the driver side down by the dash. I dont want to run the MS coil driver b/c that involves takeing the computer apart making sure this is pinned and that aint pinned. How did you wire the ignitor and coil up?
Black 89Turbo: (2011-10-08 17:20:30)
The last thing i need to figure out is how the stock ignitor is wired up. Then can hopefully start it.
BLOZ UP: (2011-10-08 17:50:39)
In the FSM, EF & EC Page 92, Ignition Signal
The stock (88t) ignitor has L, G/B, and B wires.
L = 12v when car is on (IGN)
G/B = Trigger, what you connect MS pin 36 to
B = Ground
Black 89Turbo: (2011-10-08 19:16:53)
Ok, i understand that. i guess i should have re-worded what i was trying to say. Using Pin 36 and the stock ignitor requires NO mods to the ecu correct? Only if i was trying to use the internal ignitor i have to make sure R57(i think) is not solderd in.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-10-08 19:18:31)
Thanks so much for your Help Bloz up. Its a little rought when theres only a handful of people using this computer on this engine. Hopefully i get all the settings right and such so it can run.
BLOZ UP: (2011-10-08 21:42:09)
I have never used R57. I used my MS with the OE ignitor, and with the VB921/BIP373 (I blew the VB up). As long as you don't have R57 installed, you can use either. You can also have the VB/BIP installed (if it already is) and use the OE ignitor, as long as you jumper JS10 to IGN.
Be careful of your MegaTune settings. For the VB/BIP/OE driver, coil output signal must be "inverted", since it's not firing the coil directly.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-10-09 14:05:05)
http://www.megamanual.com/index.html. This is for MS2.
Wiring the Coil to the High Current Driver
To use the high current driver (with the VB921 dedicated coil driver IC), you must install the high current ignition driver circuit at step#65 of the assembly of your V3 main board.
Make sure you did not install R57. If you have installed it, remove it (or cut one lead to disable it). R57 is located about 1 inch (25mm) from the DB37, and 1 inch (25mm) from the heat sink. R57 interferes with the signal from the processor to the VB921, so it must be removed, or else your dwell and timing will be wrong.
If you have connected the high current driver, you installed jumpers:
IGBTIN (near the heat sink side of the DB37 on the bottom of the board) to JS10 (under the 40-pin CPU socket on the bottom of the PCB)
IGBTOUT to IGN - near the Heat sink end of the DB37 on the bottom of the PCB (this brings the ignition control signal out on DB37 pin #36)
Wiring the high current circuit to the coil is very easy. You need to supply a switched 12 Volt supply to one side of the coil, to the positive (+) terminal. Use the fuel pump relay for this source, as the coil will then not be powered during a stall, etc. Put a 10 Amp fuse in this wire. The other terminal (negative (-)) is wired to pin 36 of the MegaSquirt® DB37 (this connects to the relay board terminal S5, if you are using the relay board).
http://www.megamanual.com/357/intro.htm For MS3.57
Functionally, the V3.57 board operates identically to the V3 main board with only minor alterations for additional support and functionality.
The differences on the V3.57 board (compared to the V3 thru-hole main board) are:
Majority of the passive devices (capacitors, resistors) and some of the active semiconductor devices (transistors, etc.) have been converted from thru-hole to surface mount. The package size for most devices is 0805 (0.080" x 0.050"), with a few 1206 and 2502 case sizes.
Tach input selection jumper JP1 is now on 0.100 inch header.
-Placing a jumper across positions 1 and 2 enables the variable reluctance (VR) circuit.
-Placing a jumper across positions 2 and 3 enables opto-isolator ("Hall") tach input.
Tach selection jumper J1 is for routing the signal-conditioned tach signal to the processor. Only one jumper is used, the remaining positions are open.
-A jumper on pins 1 - 2 enables the opto-isolator.
-A jumper on pins 3 - 4 enables VR (variable reluctor) operation (non-inverted).
-A jumper on pins 5 - 6 is for an inverted VR signal.
The three front-panel LEDs have been converted to surface mount devices. These cannot be easily viewed through the standard LED end-panel holes, but are easily visible with the case lid off. If front-panel LEDs are desired then the surface mount units are removed and jumper wires installed in place. Also, since the LED drivers are often used for alternative output applications with the spare outputs, there is a new 1K Ohm pull-up resistor connected to the driver transistors, and this connection is available on the PAD1, PAD2, and PAD3 PCB terminals (see schematic for details).
There is a unpopulated pull-up resistor on the tach input line (R57) that can be added to provide bias for Hall sensor and other input sources.
The prototype area has not been implemented on the V3.57 board. Instead there is an unpopulated DB-15 PCB-mount socket (at the same end of the case as the DB-9), with the signals brought out to a series of pads (on 0.100 inch centers). The DB-15 socket is provided to allow I/O connector expansion (it will also require a custom end-plate with an additional cut-out for the DB-15). There are also additional mounting holes located in this area to allow the use of custom expansion boards.
The MAP sensor has been moved higher on the PCB, but still mounts underneath.
The output of the optional ignition driver IGBT (VB921) is hard-connected to pin 36 on the DB-37 connector. No jumpers are required.
The two VR input circuit potentiometers (R52 and R56) have been replaced with a 5-turn surface-mount variant.
The processor pin jumper ports JS0 through JS12 have been brought outside of the processor and arranged in 0.100 inch spacing. There is no change in the pin/jumper name assignments, and these have the same functions as with the V3 thru-hole main board.
The fuel pump and fast idle solenoid outputs are now driven by a power driver IC (Integrated Circuit) from ST, the VNS3NV04D. This device will drive up to 3.5 amps continuous and has a clamp voltage of 40V.
On the fast idle output there is a diode hat minimizes power dissipation on the driver chip for PWM fast idle applications.
The 32 KHz crystal (for MegaSquirt-I) is a surface-mount version
Black 89Turbo: (2011-10-09 14:08:34)
So based on the MS3.57 i shouldnt have to do anything???? I guess the only way to really know is to open the computer up. It says its "built in" so no jumpers are required. Am i reading something wrong?
BLOZ UP: (2011-10-09 14:27:05)
Ah, I see. I've never messed with the SMT board. Just use the VB/BIP driver in this case. But keep your dwell down. I burned mine out at 2.5ms or so of dwell, so that's apparently too high.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-10-09 14:35:22)
So based on that i should be able to wire the stock resistor up just like you said
L = 12v when car is on (IGN)
G/B = Trigger, what you connect MS pin 36 to
B = Ground
and set the dwell at 2.0 then cross my fingers and go from there
BLOZ UP: (2011-10-09 15:21:37)
Not quite, since you are using the MS driver, you fire the coil directly off of that.
You need to connect pin 36 to the L (pin 3 on stock ECU) wire, and remove the power transistor. This should be the ground of the coil. Check it with a continuity tester (with everything related disconnected), I am going off memory here.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-10-09 17:52:32)
Setup like this then 36 going to NEG side of coil
BLOZ UP: (2011-10-09 19:48:08)
Yup, and you can disconnect the OE power transistor.
datsun1200_vg30et: (2011-10-15 20:10:09)
I use the nissan power transistor, i think is better and stronger.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-10-16 18:39:58)
how would you use the oem transistor on MS3
BLOZ UP: (2011-10-17 02:41:12)
That's how is appears to me too. Large heatsink, and lasted longer at 2.0ms dwell than the MS VB unit. Haven't tried the BIP unit. Of course, setting my dwell properly using a scope is what I really need to do.
datsun1200_vg30et: (2011-10-17 03:04:27)
[quote]Black 89Turbo wrote:
I use the nissan power transistor, i think is better and stronger.
how would you use the oem transistor on MS3[/quote:1auywxie]
I've used MS1 and 2 on V3.0 like this.
[archived image: neonout.GIF]
Spark inverted NO!
The power transistor has 3 wires, ground, (-) coil, and trigger from megasquirt.
Green is signal from megasquirt, blue is (-), and black is ground
Black 89Turbo: (2011-10-18 15:17:47)
Good to know. Glad were getting some good thoughts/ inputs on this topic. Im surprised more Z's arent on MS. I am trying to prevent from taking the computer apart and socketing anything at this point. The reason is b/c i have not got the car running yet and i want to elimante all problems that may make the car not start ect. Should get to start it up.....Today!.....at least make an attempt lol
nismopu: (2011-10-21 18:35:52)
http://forums.hybridz.org/index.php/top … ntry962663
Black 89Turbo: (2011-10-22 23:37:51)
Exactly whats being worked on. Hopefully the Z's can utilize everything MS has to offer now.
Wastegate: (2011-10-30 04:21:06)
[quote]datsun1200_vg30et wrote:
Anyone mind hosting a base map for a bone stock 85 turbo 5 speed on MS2? Blozup had one however he took his awesome site down lol. Please host your write up again or your new one as it was extremely helpful!!
what firmware do you have?
Sorry for the late post but will be running MS2E 3.1.1
But Im still trouble shooting serial comm connection problems. Im using the DIYauto usb adapter, And all the tests (miniterm in tunerstudio/ voltage tests.) are checking out fine, yet im getting timed out error 0xE0… Ill be posting on MSE forums. Need to try another computer I suppose. However Thank you Bloz and black for all the info as I have a 85 ex-automatic and still want to run stock igniter and such. Anyone running the boost controller off FIDL? I have it wired so far.
datsun1200_vg30et: (2011-10-30 16:32:51)
I run MS2 2.1, my msq files are different.
BLOZ UP: (2011-10-30 17:34:58)
It's kind of a bad idea to just copy someone's whole MSQ. What's good is to post VEXs or screen grabs of whatever setting you are needing.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-10-31 00:49:07)
Im in a hole atm. Not using GM AIT & CLT and idk what im going to input for the calibrations…1 step forward, 2 steps back
BLOZ UP: (2011-10-31 01:08:04)
If you are using the Nissan CTS, it's in the FSM. What are you using for IAT?
Black 89Turbo: (2011-10-31 03:20:46)
using rx7 coolent temp. its a 2 wire. AIT i forgot actually. Its a standard square plug like the injectors ect… i just grabbed a book at the parts store and found one i liked....i totaly forgot to run GM ones. ill check tomo to see what iat it is.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-10-31 15:05:45)
Im also trying to find the AIT Calibrations. Its a Wells SU4978. This ones going to be hard. might be easier to just swap sensor to gm. The reason i used this sensor b/c its short. its a nice sensor to put in line. The AIT sensor is in the IC pipe.
Sensor:
http://www.mypartsgarage.com/wells-well … -4141.html
Black 89Turbo: (2011-10-31 15:13:57)
A RX7 Collent temp sensor will screw into the factor Intake (The reason i used) Here are the calibrations for a Rx7 and Rx8.
Rx8:The rx-8 Fsm states it's coolant sensor as
20C(68*f) 2.2k-2.7k
80C(176*f) 287-239
91C(196*f) 227-240
Rx7:
-20c (-4f) 16.2K = 16200
20c (68f) 2.5K = 2500
80c (176f) 0.3K = 300
BLOZ UP: (2011-10-31 16:56:32)
What was wrong with the Z31 CTS?
shromy: (2011-10-31 17:01:25)
I have a GM IAT you can have, if you pay the shipping. I can maybe even just cut the pipe it is on, so you have the bung. It is also a piece of history, came from tmbg's car, the man who started this tread.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-10-31 20:51:07)
One wire and i myself feel alot better with a 2 wire. Its Ok, all is well. threw a GM ait in there. Bloz up, Im stuck. Using the stock cas/coil, what ignition settings are you using? under Ignition settings, Ignition settings/wheel decoder i have no clue what to go from. We use optical dizzys and theres no optical dizzy selection? Also the coil blew up. split in 2. was in the car on the lap top and smelled something. Wires werent really hot. coil is F'ed. I think i know why and fixed it. No worries got more coils. All i need is ign settings
BLOZ UP: (2011-10-31 21:17:38)
You don't need any wheel decoder stuff.
Post a screenshot of the ignition window in whatever tuning software you are using, and we'll go from there.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-10-31 21:38:27)
Tuner studio. Ill post it in a sec. I havent setup anything for ignition yet.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-10-31 22:21:53)
This is what i was wondering about
Black 89Turbo: (2011-10-31 22:31:11)
Im trying to post the ign. table. I exported it to my desktop. Idk how to put in on here. The file name is crazyness
BLOZ UP: (2011-10-31 23:42:51)
Use Alt+Prnt Scrn to "copy" the current window to the clipboard. Open up Microsoft Paint or whatever, paste it in there. Save it as a PNG or JPG. Upload that file.
BLOZ UP: (2011-10-31 23:45:23)
Trigger angle is 60 degrees.
Output should be inverted if you are using the on board or Nissan driver.
And spark hardware… what board do you have 3.57? Weird… Should be pin 36 or whatever.... I'd have to look it up.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-01 00:10:26)
Yes 3.57. Idk what the settings are supposed to be. i searched everywere. I even emailed matt.
The Options For the Following 2.
SPark hardware:
JS10 Spark
LED's Spark
MS3X Spark
Tacho
CAM input:
MS3X
JS10
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-01 02:26:40)
Turn the cam input off. Try spark output as D14 (LED). Not sure how your board is setup.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-01 02:36:08)
Ok, illl try it. IDK how the board is setup either b/c i never opened it. Turn cam off. That would be it for the left side of the screen. On the right side im going to change the dwell to 2.0 then turn "on" dwell over protection. Do you have a "base map" so i can fill in the IGN map. Idk what inj you ran so i would have to start from scratch on the fuel table I have dsm blue top 450's Low Impedance.
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-01 19:17:21)
Your looks fine for now, just get the area around idle at 15 or whatever stock timing is.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-03 02:50:45)
"Hey Matt, I am Trying to figure out what the settings would be in the ignition settings, Ignition options/wheel decoder. I installed a pullup resistor in line already. I have everything setup besides the igntion because im using the stock cas.It is a optical sensor. (vg30et). I have the - side of the coil running back to the Ecu. Im just confused. there is no setting that says optical ect… Thanks, Russ"
"What firmware are you running?
And is the - side of the coil wired to pin 36 or 24?
Thanks, Matt Cramer"
"1.o.2, Pin 36......MS3 V3.57w/ Ms3x. just bought it pre assembled when the discount was going on.
300zx..Vg30et
Thanks, Russ"
"Ok. Those normally use the MS3X spark outputs and you'll have to wire
spark A to the stock ignition module, then use MS3X spark output.
Thanks,
Matt Cramer"
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-03 03:02:45)
Only wires "jumpered":
IAC2B-Js3
IAC2A-Js2
IAC1B- Js1
IAC1A-Js0
JS10-Middle Hole on Q16
JS9-A12C
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-03 03:30:52)
Now im lost. I have no clue what to do. I dont think ill be utilizing any MS in the future on anything vg. So many run arounds/jumper this, jumper that, ect ect. Why cant they just put in all the pins/jumpers when they come Pre-built. Ok im done ranting. This blows. Im used to "normal Ecu's" lol. I guess it will get figured out....someday.
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-03 14:13:36)
Oops, I forgot you have MS3.
So, no 3.57 transistor, and JS10 is jumpered to Q16's output…
OK, and MS3X has a bunch of ignition outputs on it, so I'm guessing it routes the MS3X output through the old MS2 diode's output and out to pin 36.
So change your TunerStudio spark output to MS3X.
The trigger is "Basic Trigger"
Change input capture to falling edge, if it's not already.
Should still keep it at "Going High (Inverted)".
But we don't want to use MS3's driver, so that's why we are using Spark A, a logic level output. Ugh, I really need to get one of these new MS3s.
Apparently you wan to hook up the Nissan coil driver to pin 14. That is spark A for MS3X, what do you have it connected to now, if anything?
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-03 14:46:13)
Im going to try this. Somethihg else i noticed. The fuel pump its on its own relay. THere's 12v, 12v ign, fuel pump, Pin 37 fuel pump. Pin 37 is hooked to the "ground" on the relay (85). WHen the key was turned on the fuel pump used to run for a split second like it should. Now it does not turn on at all. If i ground pin 85 on the relay the pump turns on like it should. I wonder why the ECU quite "grounding" the relay.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-03 16:11:02)
Wait..Confused. SparkA is pin 14 witch is hooked to nothing. Now do i have to Run the Oem Ignitor to pin 14 and not use pin 36? Idk how the ignition gets hooked up now. Im confused.
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-03 16:52:01)
What did you change since?
MS-2 Extra has a fuel pump test function, you'd have to look in TunerStudio to see if you can do the same.
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-03 16:53:27)
Yup.
Either connect 36 to the coil
or connect pin 14 to the Nissan ignitor.
If I were you, I would try the first option first, since it's probably easier. This would use the MS3X coil driver. I think.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-03 17:51:11)
[quote]BLOZ UP wrote:
Wait..Confused. SparkA is pin 14 witch is hooked to nothing. Now do i have to Run the Oem Ignitor to pin 14 and not use pin 36? Idk how the ignition gets hooked up now. Im confused.
Yup.
Either connect 36 to the coil
or connect pin 14 to the Nissan ignitor.
If I were you, I would try the first option first, since it's probably easier. This would use the MS3X coil driver. I think.[/quote:2557h728]
Thats how its setup now. - side on coil is to pin 36
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-03 17:51:56)
[quote]BLOZ UP wrote:
Im going to try this. Somethihg else i noticed. The fuel pump its on its own relay. THere's 12v, 12v ign, fuel pump, Pin 37 fuel pump. Pin 37 is hooked to the "ground" on the relay (85). WHen the key was turned on the fuel pump used to run for a split second like it should. Now it does not turn on at all. If i ground pin 85 on the relay the pump turns on like it should. I wonder why the ECU quite "grounding" the relay.
What did you change since?
MS-2 Extra has a fuel pump test function, you'd have to look in TunerStudio to see if you can do the same.[/quote:2wwr3uy3]
Nothing besides ign. settings.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-03 18:02:49)
This is the basic jist of the wiring. How the coil is wired pretty much
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-03 18:05:00)
Ok, it's not LED output.
Can you test to see if JS10 and pin 36 have continuity?
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-03 18:07:41)
Yea probably. i have to take the computer apart again i suppose. This is kinda a head scratcher. I also tryed to set the computer up on JS10. and it didnt work.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-03 18:27:31)
[quote]Black 89Turbo wrote:
Ok, it's not LED output.
Can you test to see if JS10 and pin 36 have continuity?
Yea probably. i have to take the computer apart again i suppose. This is kinda a head scratcher. I also tryed to set the computer up on JS10. and it didnt work.[/quote:u0kmc21h]
Yes there is continuity from Pin 36 to JS10.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-03 18:45:25)
Pin 36's trace goes straight to the orange jumper wire then the jumper wire goes to JS10
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-03 23:06:22)
I see, that pin14 is on the MS3X connector. Forgot about that. But it's a logic level output, not enough to drive a coil.
It doesn't appear that the MS3X board has a coil driver. So, pin 36 won't work. I am wondering why it's jumpered to JS10, though.
On second thought, to avoid potentially frying your MS, don't hook up 36 to the coil. I hope it's not too late.
You're going to need to do what Matt said, wire the nissan transistor to pin 14 on the MS3X board, and set it up for MS3X in TS.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-03 23:09:45)
Idk if anything is Fried yet. Nothing on the board is black and no signs of getting hot but something could be fried already. It's like 50-50 atm if somethings fried or not. The coils been hooked up to pin 36 since day 1 and has probably 3hrs of "on time". Im getting fed up with this MS so fast its rediculous. When the people that build the damn thing cant tell you whats going on…wtf. I made a post on the msextra forum and i doubt ill get somone that knows wtf to do.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-03 23:13:40)
I have no idea how to hook it up to pin 14. I guess i can just De-pin Pin 36 and plug it into 14. what leads me to believe somethings fried is the fuel pump issue:
When the key is turned on, the fuel pump used to run for a split sec like it should. Now the fuel pump does not run because the relay does not click on. Relay is wired as Follows:
Fuel Pump Relay:
87= straight from Batt 12v
86= key switch Pos 12v
85= Pin 37 from ecu. Fuel pump (ground)
30= Straight to Fuel Pump
Now..When you turn the key ON and with the RELAY PLUGGED IN Pins: 85,86,87 HAS POSOTIVE 12V. ODD. 85 supposed to be "grounded" threw the ECU.
Now.. if the RELAY is UNPLUGGED and you check for voltage at all 4 pins: 87 12V, 86 12V, 85 HAS NO voltage like it should.
Based on that you would say its the relay shorted out inside but it is NOT. I have changed relays, tryed many different things. PIN 85 HAS 12V ONLY when the relay is plugged in. If PIN 85 is jumpered to a Ground the fuel pump turns on like it should and nothing happens to the 12V at pin 85. There is no sparks/smoke/ wires dont get hot or short out. At the moment im not worried about that fuel pump wire at all, i can jumper it. I can run with Pin 37 not hooked up. Focus on one thing at a time.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-04 00:02:11)
Coil
G/W- 12v to coil ??
L-?
Power Transistor
L-?
G/B?
B- Ground
Both âLâs are tied together so were 1 goes the other ties in.
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-04 01:03:16)
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-04 01:06:02)
Yes, let the FP issue wait. If you can connect in TS then your ECU is likely not fried.
You should have two large 27 pin connectors from the MS box. The one on "top" is the new MS3X board's output. That has the pin 14 you need. That goes to the coil's G/B or whatever it is. The middle one.
You're probably one of the first to hook up a Z31 to the new MS3X stuff. It takes time to get it right. Once running though, you won't need to do anything else to it unless you want to add options later. It is daunting for someone not comfortable with lots of DIY time. If it comes to it, I'll take your MS3X board, and you can run off of MS2-Extra.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-04 01:48:39)
[quote]BLOZ UP wrote:
I have no idea how to hook it up to pin 14. I guess i can just De-pin Pin 36 and plug it into 14. what leads me to believe somethings fried is the fuel pump issue:
Yes, let the FP issue wait. If you can connect in TS then your ECU is likely not fried.
You should have two large 27 pin connectors from the MS box. The one on "top" is the new MS3X board's output. That has the pin 14 you need. That goes to the coil's G/B or whatever it is. The middle one.
You're probably one of the first to hook up a Z31 to the new MS3X stuff. It takes time to get it right. Once running though, you won't need to do anything else to it unless you want to add options later. It is daunting for someone not comfortable with lots of DIY time. If it comes to it, I'll take your MS3X board, and you can run off of MS2-Extra.[/quote:sban2jb0]
Lolz. I guess im just getting a little frusterated. I know it takes time. The issue i really have is its not my car its my brothers and im trying to work on my car but i can't b/c his is kinda in the way. Snows about to fly and i wanted to try and get it on the road and stored for the winter to do a few more upgrades before the snow. ATM i have tons of stuff going on and college is tuff so trying to go threw all the diagrams and spend endless hours figuring it out is hard. Theres deff more options getting added later. If i posted pictures of my car or others ive done you would scratch your head and say "this dude has a problem with MS..wtf" ive wired cars from scratch. Between this car and me trying to get the underneith of my car in primer/paint its just overwhelming right now.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-04 01:56:47)
Judging by the diagram. wire it from the - side of the coil to L on the power transistor and that would be it. I would like to hook it up to the Oem tac wire But i think there has to be a resistor inline from the - side of the coil to the tac.
[quote]BLOZ UP wrote:
Coil
G/W- 12v to coil ?? Yes
L-? This is the coil ground. The transistor/ignitor/driver grounds out the coil to charge, and then releases the ground (disconnects) to fire
Power Transistor
L-from coil
G/B - signal from ECU - this is what MS triggers
B- Ground
Both âLâs are tied together so were 1 goes the other ties in.
[/quote:1rgcslk1]
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-04 02:31:02)
No, that's firing the coil directly. To use pin 14, you need the transistor to act as a little relay to take most of the current. So, MS signals to the base of the transistor, which grounds the coil for a moment (through the emitter, the little arrow in the transistor on the diagram), then it disconnects it and sparks fly from the collapsing magnetic field in the coil.
I couldn't find anything about how the MS3X board works with the pin 36 connection, whether that's still an option or not. Especially since you don't have a coil driver installed.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-04 02:44:19)
Am i reading something backwards?
shromy: (2011-11-04 03:03:02)
The resistor is inside the car, so I you retain that OE wiring it is still going to work.
And no, you are not reading it wrong.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-04 03:11:11)
[quote]shromy wrote:
i think there has to be a resistor inline from the - side of the coil to the tac.The resistor is inside the car, so I you retain that OE wiring it is still going to work.
And no, you are not reading it wrong.
No. The resistor/ignitor is in my hand. It is not in the car by the drivers side foot well. That harness is no longer there. for that ignitor to plug into. MS3 is not PnP.
shromy: (2011-11-04 03:26:20)
Well no shit its not PnP. Why on earth did you not keep the harness etc? Further more you can wire it back in per the stock diag and it will do the same job. All you had to do was run the pin 14 to the trigger side of the transistor (G/B), add 12v to G/W, ground L, run wire from L to resistor to tac. You made it more complicated than you needed to.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-04 03:35:26)
No not at all sir. I sold the harness with the ECU b/c i did not need it anymore. i woulr NEVER run a stock wiring harness with a standalone. its ALOT of work to do wire tucks with stock harnesses, delete all the "luxury" options. It so much easier to start with a nice new MS harness. EVerythings nice new and neat. The issue is not running the ignitor. the issue is witch pin is utilizing the ign. Now that we now pin 14 is being used it will be wired in that way and see were it gets me
shromy: (2011-11-04 03:43:32)
Then get to work. Should not take you long. I agree with the stock harness depining. Otta see the pile of wire I pulled from my JDM 2jz harness and it does not have half the vsv's, etc of the USDM.
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-04 13:22:58)
That's correct--except that the L wire only gets grounded after it goes through the transistor (the B wire coming out the other side of the transistor).
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-04 14:15:58)
K. See how it goes.
[quote]BLOZ UP wrote:
Am i reading something backwards?
That's correct--except that the L wire only gets grounded after it goes through the transistor (the B wire coming out the other side of the transistor).[/quote:3e7hocuv]
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-04 14:16:59)
I activaed all of these but dont know what the last Few are for. Expanded coolent temp, meters, internal log fields, user cr data check, pw4x. I tred to find the settings on the Ms3 manual but havent found yet.
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-04 21:21:41)
You can turn off CAN…
and probably Extended CLT, but since it's already on just leave it.
Don't know about the others. Not really relevant or going to harm anything. Just leave them.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-05 01:13:32)
Still nnothing. Idk. maybe the dizzy dont get wired like the diagram. i tryed to do all the diagnostic test but it wont pass the first one lol. i tryed to do all the "loggers" and nothing happens.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-05 03:02:19)
megasquirt Distributor Wiring
Tomo i am going to double check Dizzy wiring. I believe this is the correct wiring
B/W-12switch(make sure there is 12v while cranking)
B-Ground
G/B- To pin 24. Pull up resistor required
G/Y not used.
By the wiring diagram, notice the placment of the plug in the diagram. It is turned 90degrees with the "unplug" tab facing west.
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-05 14:06:28)
G/B is the wire you need from the dizzy. It's 6 slots.
G/Y is the wrong one, it's the 360 slot one.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-05 18:54:02)
Heres what sucks. The oem harness that plugs into the dizzy is not the same colors as the wiring diagram. Neither is a 92 pathfinder harness. THere both as follows
Red
Black
Green
White.
At the moment it is wired red 12v, black ground, Green to pin 24.
The harness i have and the Wiring digram dont even corolate together. black were G/Y is, Red is were G/B is ect…im going to try a few different things i guess.
shromy: (2011-11-05 18:55:57)
The pin locations should be the same in the connectors, so color wont matter.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-05 19:25:14)
but they arent. Look at the 300zx89 FSM and the PathFinder FSM. there different.
My harnees, 89300zx fsm, pathfinder fsm, all the pins are in diff locations lol. its like they just pinned harnesses blind
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-05 22:28:56)
Use the one that the G/B connects to.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-06 00:48:53)
Well, Finally got something. Rpm is scatterd like no other. Here is whats odd: Turn key on/crank engine… When the engine is cranking the rpm needle on the gauge page, or the tooth logger does not read. When the key is let go from the cranking position the rpms jump up to 300+ and the tooth logger reads 1 blue line. then i turn the engine off and back on and the whole log is on the tooth logger screen. Not synced goes to signed for a split second and not cranking goes to cranking and it keeps going back and forth while cranking. This is very hard to describe so i made a video [http://[video=youtube_share;jj8-GOWAjXc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj8-GOWAjXc[/video]] [archived image: yt_logo_rgb_light.png]]. Notice how there is no rpm until i let the key go
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-06 02:49:22)
Take the dizzy out (but leave the harness connected/reconnect it), disconnect the injectors. It's much easier to see if you are getting an RPM signal by turning it by hand. You can get 2-300 rpms easily. Much easier on your battery.
Seems like it's not connected to the right signal line. You should get something while cranking if it's hooked up correctly, even if your grounds are bad. Also verify that you get ~12v on the signal line, works best with a analog meter. There is a pullup resister, right?
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-06 02:59:02)
Well i know what the ground is. ohm'ed that out. So we have 3 other wires to work with.
12v
signal
not used.
I did not depin any wires and flip them around. After the ground was omhed out the wire was in the correct spot already so i assumed the 12v was in the correct spot. I desolderd the green wire from the resistor (on the dizzys side) and soldered it onto the white wire and this is were it got me. Yes there is a resistor. With it wired to the green wire it does nothing.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-06 03:32:31)
If the stock transistor/resistor is wired in then i should be able to run pin 36 on the main board i think. It wouldnt require the BIP373. Im not sure though. I hate wiring this to the ms3x. Anyhow, im wondering if this has to be done.
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/ignition.html#vrv357pull
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-06 15:23:44)
Where is your pullup?
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-06 15:32:24)
In line. on the signal wire
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-06 15:47:29)
connected to that and a +12v line that's on while cranking and IGN on?
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-06 15:49:43)
Yes.
12v while ign on & cranking
Pin 24 going to white wire on cas w/ reistor in line
Grounds, ground
Green not used
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-06 16:45:55)
And the white wire is going to G/B?
EDIT: I'm still not getting the picture here. Pin 24 should have a ~1k resistor connecting it to a +12v source. It shouldn't be "inline"; I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-06 18:35:07)
[quote]BLOZ UP wrote:
Yes.
12v while ign on & cranking
Pin 24 going to white wire on cas w/ reistor in line
Grounds, ground
Green not used
EDIT: I'm still not getting the picture here. Pin 24 should have a ~1k resistor connecting it to a +12v source. It shouldn't be "inline"; I'm not sure what you mean by that.[/quote:1zrtxmij]
And the white wire is going to G/B? Well who knows. G/B on the fsm is were the ground wire is on the harness i have(and it is a ground). I also have 3 diff harnesses to 3 diff vehicles and they all 3 are the same.(red, black, white, green) and all 3 plugs have the same wires in the same spot on the plug. So you can take a pathfinder distributor and drop it in a z31 and it will work fine correct. Take a look at the pathfinder FSM and 88-89z31 FSM. The wires pinned in the plug are in different locations. So it kinda makes no sense.
This is damn near exactly how its wired.
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-06 18:46:41)
The resistor needs to have one end on the signal line, and the other end on a +12v cranking/IGN power source.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-06 18:52:36)
how would the ecu ever get a signal? If i hooked the the signal line going to the distributor at one end and the other end to cank/ign. were does it ever connect to ecu? Or do i splice in 12v before the resistor
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-06 19:05:51)
.
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-06 19:06:08)
[quote]Black 89Turbo wrote:
The resistor needs to have one end on the signal line, and the other end on a +12v cranking/IGN power source.
how would the ecu ever get a signal? If i hooked the the signal line going to the distributor at one end and the other end to cank/ign. were does it ever connect to ecu? Or do i splice in 12v before the resistor[/quote:2t8nf5yp]
[attachment=0:2t8nf5yp]pullup.png[/attachment:2t8nf5yp]
Red wire is +12v source, can come from anywhere. Either on the MS unit itself or in the wiring harness somewhere. You can even use the +12v wire that goes to the CAS itself.
You attach one end of the resistor to the +12v wire, the other to the signal. The signal wire still continues to the MS box.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-06 19:26:57)
Be back in a few with results!
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-06 22:54:26)
Ahhhh. One hurdle down! got spark! strong spark. The signal is everywere still but its alot better. Car will not start due to the injectors not pulsing. they get 12v but the ecu does nothing. I also believe its related to the purple wire(pin37) for the fuel pump not getting grounded inside the ecu to trigger the relay to turn the fuel pump on. Im thinking there is something shorted out inside the board. I ohmed out pin 37 and it gets nothing.
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-06 23:23:45)
You've set the trigger angle/number of cylinders/all that jazz?
Not sure about the fuel pump. If it were me I would hard wire it and get the thing started before troubleshooting.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-06 23:34:00)
yup yup. Ill post the map. i tryed posting a map on msextra forum and the map would change when i posted it.
Edit: won't let me upload. says msq file not allowed. got a email?
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-07 01:06:08)
I can't really use a msq at the moment. screenshots work.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-07 01:45:25)
.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-07 01:46:10)
.
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-07 03:10:47)
Looks good to me. How do you know you are getting spark?
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-07 03:17:50)
Take the coil wire off, hold it in your hand pointing it near the shock tower bolt. When the arcs jump and your hand goes stiff. You got spark!
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-07 03:19:56)
The injectors dont fire and the fuel pump dont work by the ecu. It has to be internal problem. Omhed pin 37 out and its nothing
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-07 16:26:44)
Don't know what to tell you. Make sure no diodes or transistors are burnt out on the board.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-07 16:38:22)
Yea theres no black spots ect. nothing having a burtn smell. No signs of anything burnt. Its down to testing the board
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-08 04:26:14)
Well i got it all sorted out i believe. WOW what a run around. I got fuel pump working like it should. Got spark & fuel. npw just need to make the 2 come together. The trigger signal is still all over the place. I dont quite understand why.
BLOZ UP: (2011-11-08 15:50:14)
At low unsteady rpms it will be. Get a decent log of 10 or so seconds and send it to me. I can compare with mine here.
Black 89Turbo: (2011-11-08 22:07:59)
I have a very odd issue. With the distributor out, you spin the distributor everything works. Spark, injectors fire ect. Hell if you crank the car over and some one spins the distributor it will fire.(yea..pretty dumb but had to at least try it once :lol[archived image: smile.png] So now you put the car engine to TDC, stab the dizzy and install it, nothing happens. Also just roughly 1 hour ago the fuel pump stopped priming but when the car cranks it primes. It seems like a ground issue but have went threw everything over and over again. added new grounds & more grounds to everything. If the Distributor is pulled out of the hole the ECU shuts down, computer goes off line. Im going to try and get another distributor.
DaftZX: (2011-12-06 19:23:45)
Can anyone send me the tuner studio file for an 86T?
BLOZ UP: (2011-12-06 21:46:47)
A VG30 is a VG30 is a VG30
I can take some screen shots.
DaftZX: (2011-12-07 00:08:22)
Wtf are you talking about bro?
BLOZ UP: (2011-12-07 01:18:35)
[quote]DaftZX wrote:
A VG30 is a VG30 is a VG30
I can take some screen shots.
Wtf are you talking about bro?
Megajizz
Black 89Turbo: (2012-01-07 00:50:46)
Like a bauss!.....http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_article … _discs.htm
BLOZ UP: (2012-01-09 02:13:51)
I've got a couple of them on the way.
I was going to go coil packs, but I think I might do some kind of wasted spark now, since I'm also trying to use one of the spark outputs that would be COP for a VSS. So far unsuccessfully because the FSM lies!
Either way I get more accurate timing.
Black 89Turbo: (2012-01-10 01:42:22)
This is why i have so many issues. The FSM is just wtf
DaftZX: (2012-01-17 21:29:03)
The resistor for the distributor should it be wired between 12v power or like the text on that picture says between pin 24 and pin 26 on Ms?
BLOZ UP: (2012-01-18 01:35:07)
If pin 24 is your input that's the same thing since pin 26 is power (12v).
Myself: (2012-01-30 00:04:25)
Hi guys
I am thinking about running megasquirt for fuel only until I become more familiar with it. Maybe in the future Iâll go full and do spark too.
The engine is stock but is a NA engine with turbo. (hi compression)
I have some questions that I will really appreciate if someone could answer.
Can I use the stock CHTS? How do I calibrate it for megasquirt?
Can I remove the MAF? Does the stock ECU use the MAF for timing (spark)?
Does anyone have a base map that I can start with? At least for starting the engine and then modify it?
Thanks
BLOZ UP: (2012-01-30 14:27:25)
It would be more work to piggy back. You would have to add a MAP sensor and keep the MAF.
Using the CHTS is simple, it just requires using 3 value pairs from the FSM and plugging them in to TunerStudio.
Using TunerStudios VE table generator is sufficient to get it started and idling. That and just enter idle timing in to the timing map.
Any particular reason you want to keep the stock computer?
MrFishHat: (2012-01-31 04:45:40)
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/54-m … 37d65eb498
This would make most MS installs even easier than before.
BLOZ UP: (2012-01-31 16:25:13)
You would need to wire up BOTH sensors to fully use that wheel. However, I'm running on just the 24-1-1 portion of that wheel. Timing is a bit more accurate.
It's just as easy, if not easier, to setup the OE wheel and use a basic trigger. The offset is 60, and then you just turn the distributor till the timing light matches MS.
Black 89Turbo: (2012-01-31 18:13:24)
[quote]BLOZ UP wrote:
You would think, but mine dont work like that lol.
BLOZ UP: (2012-01-31 21:31:53)
Eh, whatever works. I think the VG is a prime candidate for MS3 experimentation. I'll be going that route sometime in the near future.
Black 89Turbo: (2012-01-31 22:46:30)
Please please please get it. It seems no one can help me out. I jsut dont understand the issues at all. If Everythings wired correctly, then it has to be in the settings on the MS. The VG is a good experiment car.
BLOZ UP: (2012-01-31 22:57:42)
Thought you had it running? You have a good wiring diagram of what MS pins are connected to what on the car?
Black 89Turbo: (2012-01-31 23:06:03)
I had it startedish. I guess i shouldnt call it running lol. You cannot get in the car and move it 1in. Yes i do, post up in min
Myself: (2012-01-31 23:12:18)
Thanks for answering
No particular reason I want to keep the stock computer. In fact I'll like to get rid of it.
But I dont have any experience installing and using megasquirt or any other engine management system.
So Im a little scare to go full, not knowing what I doing and having no one to turn to if something goes wrong.
I was reading this thread a few pages back and someone mentioned that it was relatively easy to install it and have it running on fuel only.
But you think it will be better to just install the full system from the start??? (spark and fuel)
I have done some reading on megasquirt but still don't feel comfortable enough to attempt the full install.
Black 89Turbo: (2012-01-31 23:16:18)
This is exactly how its wired. BUT there is no idle solenoids or anything of that nature.
Black 89Turbo: (2012-01-31 23:19:09)
[quote]Myself wrote:
Thanks for answering
No particular reason I want to keep the stock computer. In fact I'll like to get rid of it.
But I dont have any experience installing and using megasquirt or any other engine management system.
So Im a little scare to go full, not knowing what I doing and having no one to turn to if something goes wrong.
I was reading this thread a few pages back and someone mentioned that it was relatively easy to install it and have it running on fuel only.
But you think it will be better to just install the full system from the start??? (spark and fuel)
I have done some reading on megasquirt but still don't feel comfortable enough to attempt the full install.
Buy the whole system. You don't have to know how to do anything really. Just take it one step at a time and dont let it over whelm you. Follow diagrams and the People at DIYautotune are very nice and respectable, they will help you out a ton
BLOZ UP: (2012-02-01 00:41:34)
What's that resistor on the signal line connected to? It looks like it's just inline. It should be:
[pre]signal
| |
| |
|--resistor--- |
| |
+12v[/pre]
That's a horrid diagram, but the resistor should be connected between +12v and the signal line.
Your coil looks right. So it idles, stalls what? It at least fires up… ?
Black 89Turbo: (2012-02-01 13:23:32)
The resistor is Y'ed off just as you described. The diagram is the best one i got, Factory MS with a few modifications. It prett much runs on diff cyl of the engine at all different times. idk how far you turn the distributor iit changes nothing. when you try to start it, it will try to idle on half a engine around 250rpm, the problem is you cant touch the throttle or it will shut right off. Im going to take a video and post it.
BLOZ UP: (2012-02-01 15:27:34)
High impedance injectors or low? Resistors?
I see just a couple pages back all your settings. Are those still accurate?
PM me.
Black 89Turbo: (2012-02-02 03:33:05)
DSM 450's. Blue top. Low Impedance. No there is no resistors. You do not need them with the MS3 board. You basically choose high or low. The settings are probably still pretty close. I know in order for it to work i set the injectors to like 4ms and did something else. I think i changed something else but have to go back and look. all n all there still the same. Also, the reason for it not hitting before when i was having trouble and thinking it was in the wiring the whole time. It wasnt, the carhas a pathfinder dist. Well the pathfinder and 300zx dist are different. SO i took a Z dist and put it in the pathfinder housing.
BLOZ UP: (2012-02-02 13:50:04)
Try running them at a high duty cycle--increase the hold amperage of the injectors.
85NA2T: (2012-02-02 22:23:45)
what all needs done to go distributorless?Do you need a cam postion sensor?
BLOZ UP: (2012-02-03 00:28:43)
You can get the DIY wheel, but you need to keep the CAS. You use both signals from the CAS, one functions as a Crank Angle Signal, the other a cam signal. You can remove the cap and rotor and move to coil packs then, if you have a MS3 with the 3X expansion board.
Black 89Turbo: (2012-02-03 05:17:19)
tryed to post video bbut theres no sound. i will make a new video.
85NA2T: (2012-02-03 12:23:00)
[quote]BLOZ UP wrote:
what all needs done to go distributorless?Do you need a cam postion sensor?
You can get the DIY wheel, but you need to keep the CAS. You use both signals from the CAS, one functions as a Crank Angle Signal, the other a cam signal. You can remove the cap and rotor and move to coil packs then, if you have a MS3 with the 3X expansion board.
Well I will hopefully be getting that Megasquirt 2 v3.57 from BnB.are you saying this won't support like a cop or wastespark system?
BLOZ UP: (2012-02-03 15:45:08)
[quote]85NA2T wrote: [quote=BLOZ UP]
what all needs done to go distributorless?Do you need a cam postion sensor?
You can get the DIY wheel, but you need to keep the CAS. You use both signals from the CAS, one functions as a Crank Angle Signal, the other a cam signal. You can remove the cap and rotor and move to coil packs then, if you have a MS3 with the 3X expansion board.Well I will hopefully be getting that Megasquirt 2 v3.57 from BnB.are you saying this won't support like a cop or wastespark system?
You can do COP with MS2, no sequential fuel though. It requires a few mods to work as you have to bring out some processor ports.
Black 89Turbo: (2012-02-04 21:51:10)
I would hold off on buyying that MS2 and just get ms3. become friends with diyautotune on facebook and wait till they have a sale. or call and haggle price in a whole ms3 setup.
85NA2T: (2012-02-08 13:42:47)
Too late Haha.I couldn't pass up that smokin deal
slingo: (2012-03-15 19:40:37)
Blo Z Up:
For a stock ignition system setup, would you recommend the DIYAutotune trigger wheel or is the factory CAS wheel sufficient? I know the DIY unit is preferred(required?) for coil near plug or coil on plug because of the need to emulate a tooth wheel.
I would just go ahead and go with the DIY wheel, but until I'm 100% with the megasquirt setup, I'd like to retain the ability to go back to factory with a harness change.
This maybe posted elsewhere and I'm just missing it, but could someone post a screenshot of the basic ignition setup window where settings like trigger angle, wheel type, etc are set for the factory wheel? [archived image: tongue.png]aladin [archived image: tongue.png]aladin
I would greatly appreciate it. (if its already in this thread somewhere, and I missed it, I appologize :x)
BLOZ UP: (2012-03-15 23:27:25)
It should be in the thread already, but basically, with the dizzy set near the middle of it's range:
Basic Trigger
Inverted output
60 degree offset
That should be more or less all you need.
I would recommend getting the DIY trigger wheel. You can get it started and running with the trigger and then it takes at most 10 minutes to swap wheels. Getting the first tooth offset of the DIY wheel is a little harder.
I would like to mention that I'm having all sorts of signal noise issues though after having switched to the new wheel. I never had these problems before with the basic trigger. While I'm swapping to this maxima motor I might give the old wheel another shot. But basically, I have to enable all the noise filtering and I still get random sync losses, albeit pretty infrequent now. Cranking is also harder, as it seems to lose sync 70% of the time while cranking--but only on some days. Very odd problem that might not be related to the wheel at all.
slingo: (2012-03-16 00:57:36)
Thanks a ton man. Greatly appreciated. I will probably pm you if that's OK once its in if I have any issues.
Black 89Turbo: (2012-03-16 05:33:37)
Worked on the Z today for the first time in months. got it running a little better. Had to take the distributor and turn it a few teeth to get it in timing. Next is to figure out why i cannot get the TPS to "zero" out and full throttle to "100". the lowest it starts is 69%. Then after that figure out why it will not run at all with the maps sensor plugged in. Any ideas on that?
slingo: (2012-03-16 05:38:34)
Calibrate the TPS in tunerstudio, no idea why it wont run with the map sensor plugged in unless your VE/timing map is so far off that it isn't getting enough fuel or proper timing at idle.
BLOZ UP: (2012-03-16 16:03:56)
The VE under the proper vacuum is wrong and the VE at atmosphere is right for idling.
Black 89Turbo: (2012-03-17 03:21:43)
Lol, thats what i been doing and typed that out. When you hit "get current" and the throttle is all the way closed, and the tps is turned all the way to one side and it still reads 64. I will hopfully get that figured out by going threw TPS's and calibrating till one works. I havnt messed witht he VE tables yet. Might be able to get something going tomo. I Have the extended version of megalog viewer and tuner studio. I might run it threw that tomo and see what it tells me.
slingo: (2012-03-17 08:15:20)
Sorry, from what I remember Tunerstudio had a way to define voltage for closed and.full open.and extrapolated the others from that. Maybe use a meter and find out what those voltages are for the tps you are using? Forgive me if it came across wrong before, just trying to be helpful. You could just have a tps with a dead spot or corrosion affecting its voltage outputs if you are defining them in tuner studio based on the fsm it could cause the behavior you described.
If you are using the calibration function in ts where you go wot and full closed I'm assuming that its done key on engine off but your problem appears key on engine on? Or is it never zeroing out after calibration even with the engine off?
If its only happening key on engine on it could be a gashed wire getting crosstalk from a sensor such as the dizzy so it wouldn't show up without the engine running.
The values you see in the Adc values are not percentages. Your ADC values could be anything so long as the full open is higher than full closed and the tps itself is good.
Black 89Turbo: (2012-03-17 18:21:58)
it wont go below 64 period, engine on or off. Brand new TPS. Oll try different TPS's
BLOZ UP: (2012-03-17 21:59:36)
I'm still not clear on whether that's 64% or 64 ADC counts. When you calibrate it it doesn't matter what the numbers are as long as when you are done calibrating, it goes from 0-100%. And it might be a couple percent off sometimes.
If it's 64%, then you didn't hook it up right, or it's dead.
Black 89Turbo: (2012-03-17 22:06:36)
By %. Its hooked up correctly. I double tripple checked. ge to going to have to check tps's. Ive been working on this car all day and havn't gotten anywere. I tried to run the "autotune" but cant figure anything out. Shit is so vague its rediculous.
slingo: (2012-03-17 22:22:57)
Hmm,
This is probably an oymoron, and don't take this the wrong way, you are using a TPS for an automatic car right, or a 240sx TPS (fits z31 throttle body, all of them have the "functions" of the z31 auto tps)?
Was your old TPS busted? Did you try it? or is this a "new" auto TPS that you went and got from a parts store because your car was a manual?
Just trying to fill in the blanks. A schematic of how you have the tps wired wouldn't be terrible either [archived image: smile.png]
Did you try backing up your MSQ and project, uninstall tuner studio and reinstall after verifying deletion of all the old data files? I've seen TS get corrupted (happened on my laptop) and it can report false information or send the wrong information to the ecu (ie: your tps calibration).
Black 89Turbo: (2012-03-17 23:21:06)
Yes its a auto tps. I have probably 6-7 auto/240 tps's. I actually just went threw this issue on a sr swapped 240 i just did. Went threw 4 TPS's to get one to calibrate correctly. At this moment im not super worried about the tps issue. Theres wayyyyy bigggger issues at this point haha.
slingo: (2012-03-17 23:26:20)
Good luck man! Let us know if you ever find the root cause of the TPS issue, aside a failed TPS, may be useful to others in the future. If you can try to post the values of ohming the sensor poles of the tpses (both good tps and bad tps) that might help others indicate a good/bad tps without all the hell you've gone through [archived image: tongue.png]
Black 89Turbo: (2012-03-18 03:42:02)
When you stab your cas running the MS did you line it up on the dot like factory or have to move it a few teeth to get the timing marks on the crank pulley accurate?
85NA2T: (2012-03-18 05:44:36)
Don't you need to use a potentiometer style tps when using megaesquirt?
slingo: (2012-03-18 06:02:20)
Yes, the auto style that gives accurate tps readings, not the manual 'WOT or closed' switch type. Though with MS, that does free up the WOT contact for 'stuff' [archived image: smile.png]
MS just uses the 2 ADC readings to extrapolate a voltage to throttle position map so to speak.
purely an example:
0.5v = closed
5.0v = wide open
2.75v = would be ~50% throttle
Black 89Turbo: (2012-03-18 18:30:33)
When using the factory distributor, did anyone turnthe screws on them dash pots at all? It seems i cannot get a consistent trigger. the composite/tooth loggers ect, show its kinda squirrly. I have my resistor in-line not on the board btw. MSEXTRA says:
"The optical sensor is another commonly used category of sensor. These are almost exclusively a three wire sensor. In CAS (crank angle sensor) units a multiplug may be used to combine multiple sensors. The sensor itself acts like a switch to ground when light shines through the trigger disc. Optical sensors are commonly seen in distributors where vanes or shutters block the light causing the sensor to rapidly switch off and back on when light is present again. The optical sensor requires a supply voltage which is usually taken from the 5V VREF output of the Megasquirt. The sensor is then grounded at the Megasquirt and the third wire connects to the tach input.
The Megasquirt board needs to be set for VR input. V3.0 VR+pullup setting - V3.57 VR+pullup setting
(Note, that previous Megasquirt versions may have used the optoisolator input, but for better high frequency response with toothed wheels and to match the input on the MS3X card, it is advised to use the VR circuit.)
The Megasquirt main board has provision to adjust the trigger threshold on the input signal - these is by two small potentiometers inside the case. These are labelled R52 and R56. Using a small screw driver, carefully turn both about 12 turns anti-clockwise. (There is no dead-stop, but you may feel a "click" when the end position is reached, they can't be damaged by turning too far.) Then rotate R56 a few turns clockwise.
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/ignition.html
V3.57 board - VR Input + pullup
a) Find JP1 in the bottom right of the board. Place a jumper across positions 1 and 2
b) Find J1 in the middle of the board. Place a jumper across positions 3 and 4
c) Install a 1k resistor (any value 470R - 2k2 is likely ok) onto the pads marked R57
d) With a small screwdriver, turn the pots, R52 and R56, about 6 turns to the fully anticlockwise position (you may feel a "click" when the end position is reached, they can't be damaged by turning too far.) and then turn R56 back about 2 turns clockwise.
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/ignition.html#vrv357pull
BLOZ UP: (2012-03-18 19:54:55)
[quote]Black 89Turbo wrote:
I'm still not clear on whether that's 64% or 64 ADC counts. When you calibrate it it doesn't matter what the numbers are as long as when you are done calibrating, it goes from 0-100%. And it might be a couple percent off sometimes.
If it's 64%, then you didn't hook it up right, or it's dead.
When you stab your cas running the MS did you line it up on the dot like factory or have to move it a few teeth to get the timing marks on the crank pulley accurate?[/quote:2le1r7qx]
You have to have the CAS lined up properly, to FSM specs.
Black 89Turbo: (2012-03-18 23:03:03)
You would think. WHen the car was stock, before MS was ever brought into the picture or any modifications for that matter, if you lined up the Cas on the dots (like factory) the timing was a bit off. The cas/distributor always had to be one tooth retarted in order for the timing to line up on the crank pulley OR for the rotor to be on cyl. #1. The car ran flawless, went to the track every week. With the MS its the same situation. Have to have the Cas one tooth off in order for the crank pulley to line up with the timing mark and for the cas to be on cyl #1.. The timing belt is perfect. Car is timed correctly. One thing i stumbled upon during this whole fiasco is the rotor position situation. I will take pictures for that so theres a better understanding.
BLOZ UP: (2012-03-18 23:31:45)
Hm, the FSM tells you to set it in one position before installing… since the gears are angled, it rotates when you install it. So, you have to have it about a gear tooth off for it to be on cylinder #1 when you install it.
Keep in mind that the cap's cylinder number one on the inside probably doesn't match where the actual plug goes on the outside of the cap.
You could have it off, I suppose, if your offset in MS was off enough. As long as the rotor's near the right plug.
Black 89Turbo: (2012-03-18 23:45:58)
These are all to Z's. I have a total of 4 (including the one in the car now). ALL 4 put the rotor in a different position(other 2 are at the garage). The reason the car would never run before, one of these had the rotor starting inbetween cyl #2-3 if you lined it up with the tooth before the dot so it is lined up with the dot when it slides in. The one in there now puts the rotor sorta inbetween the two. The "4th" one puts it completely 90 degrees to the one on the left, basically farther turned than the one on the right.
NissanEgg: (2012-03-19 00:55:08)
^^^^That's what happens when you get remaned dizzy's. We've had several people come into our dealership right after they put in a remaned dizzy and complaining about the car running like shit or not run at all. We were never able to figure out why the remaneds never worked, but when a genuine Nissan one was put in they ran like new.
Now I know what to look for next time we have a similar situation again.
edit
It's possible the remaned companies just grab parts from other dizzy's not paying attention thinking they are all the same. I would bet those parts you have pics of came from different dizzy's meant for different engine families.
Black 89Turbo: (2012-03-19 02:05:53)
need to find a real OEM one i think.
slingo: (2012-03-19 15:48:13)
Check maximas at the junk yards, 95% those guys never buy any parts :lol: :lol: :lol: Just make sure its the small style distributor not the huge one.
Black 89Turbo: (2012-03-20 04:18:36)
i bought a vg30 engine tonight (86) and is the distributor is lined up on the dot, the rotor starts on cyl #5 :-? pics to come
Black 89Turbo: (2012-03-20 04:56:00)
Line on the left is were the the rotor is when shat and gear are lined up. Line on right is #1
This is off an engine (86) i just bought tonight. See #5, see the rotor. When the shaft is lined up this is were it sits.
Careless: (2012-03-20 05:51:24)
nice find. will keep in mind when timing my engine.
DaftZX: (2012-03-27 19:50:47)
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/upg … l#download
Converting V2.35 by B&G firmware to newer updated firmware(v2.9 I believe). I contacted DIY and they told me they no longer have the .ini file for my "outdated" firmware. Running into a few snags though was wondering if anyone has run into this problem and if they have if they could answer a few questions for me. My first question is what is the boot jumper they talk about? Second question is how would I adjust the latency for the USB-serial adapter?
michaelp: (2012-03-27 20:18:38)
On the distributor topic, its always been known pathfinder distributors are numbered slightly different and thus point at a different spot when timed. Ran into this issue with nater86zx's car when trying to time it like a Z31. :lol:
Good info to share none the less. 8)
DaftZX: (2012-04-13 16:04:50)
Can anyone tell me if I am heading in the right direction?
BLOZ UP: (2012-04-13 20:10:40)
AFR's look weird. You should be 14.7 or higher in low load areas all across the RPMs, if you want to save gas/emissions.
Also, I don't like the all-in approach to the timing at 2600. I would increase it linearly at each load level to whatever max you need.
Black 89Turbo: (2012-07-18 13:51:00)
Wow, this thread really got chopped up. On the other hand, the z is alive and well. I got it running about 3 days ago and probably put 75miles on it already. It needs some tuning but cruises great.
BLOZ UP: (2012-07-18 18:13:28)
I take back my statement about all-in. The stock ECU has it, at low loads, 40 BTDC at like 2500rpm.
slammedfc: (2012-12-18 00:40:57)
My first time self assembled ms1 v2.2. I already have extra code on my pc as long as all the software (not for the stim yet and haven't ran my disk for the usb comm adapter but everything else is ready to go and bug free)
I've been working at my stim. It came in last week. Was too tired to finish it last night and i've been too out of it to finish it tonight.
Are you guys comparing the vg30 to the L28 in any way shape or form when you are building a base tune or just going off stock fuel/ign map?
I have stock turbo z injectors (until i get my 3rd gen maxima manifold fixed/replaced)
KA24de throttle body and tps
9:1 compression (slightly more actually because shaved head but we'll say 9:1)
For now i'd like to slap the trigger wheel in my stock distributor and run that. I have a ka24de coil and ignitor i'm going to attempt to run for now.
60 trim? .63 ar undivided turbo i plan to start with 5-8 psi
Fuel will be 93 pump gas
Pump will be 255lb hr
I'll use heat range 7 plugs. Probably with a .028/.030" gap.
Um…what else? intercooled
3" downpipe and cat delete. 2.5" cat delete back to twin 2" blast pipes i made myself.
Wideband.
I'll see what i can turn up in the coming months. Hopefully get a smooth starting point anyway. I'm having a blast right now. Hopefully not a headgasket or ringland blast later. Lol.
slammedfc: (2012-12-23 00:44:29)
Ran into my first issue. TWO versions of the db37 piniout for ms1 v2.2
Msextra and megamanual contradict the grounds.....
Megamanual
[archived image: extwir.gif]
Msextra
[archived image: ms1v22-external.png]
Yeah. i was confused too. I DO have the msv3 processor. Maybe that's where the change came in. Idk. I've searched for a few days and haven't found anything helpful. Both are using pin 24 to trigger coil. The lower diagram does list the marked grounds in the upper diagram. NOob question because well, it's my first ms and i think it's highly relevant. I was thinking just use the lower diagram. If i fry something i'll be back with a "dont do that" but i'm testing with a stim and a 9v battery so how bad could it be? I could just be worrying too damn much but better safe than sorry.
I had planned on picking up a relay board, L28/vg30 dizzy wheel and the on board ignition chip. ANYTHING ELSE I NEED TO ORDER FOR THIS?! I have a honda 4 wire, two nissan 3 wires and a nissan one wire (s13 kade) 02 on hand. WOULD I NEED TO ORDER THEIRS (diyautotune/ms) SPECIFICALLY?
Also I read through this thread (every page, every post) and if i use the stock dizzy with my ms1 extra v2.2 i'll need that resistor between a 12v and the green wire, correct or is it already built into my board? I built it to megamanual specs to the LETTER with all components that came with my kit. I haven't jumpered anything but Just haven't tested squat other than my jimstim 1.5. engine comes back out for the last time hopefully this week. Mechanically i'm about ready to rock. Last mystery is making sure everything on the ecu side of things is correct.
Thanks.
Black 89Turbo: (2012-12-23 05:56:48)
Why not use the Factory Distributor/ignitor? Yes, you probably have to run the resistor in line (witch is Easy) if you dont have it it on the board. Thats no biggie. If you wire like the diagram above your good. I can only see digram number 2. Also if you join the MSextra forum tht helps alot. Another thing i advise is follow the grounding procedure that recently been setup for all megasquirts. it should be in the manual section some place.
Grounding Procedure:
http://www.msextra.com/doc/general/grounding.html
Black 89Turbo: (2012-12-23 06:00:08)
.
slammedfc: (2012-12-24 00:59:19)
I went ahead and did the harness via diagram 2.
right now i'm trying to get my pc, megasquirt and stim talking......
Um, probably going to get a 12v power source on here because the 9v battery initially was lighting up the power led on the stim as well as the fiddle led. The center led on the ms cut on for a second and back off. I did this 2 or 3 times to verify the led wasn't blown. It's not.
The msextra code aparently updloaded the 1700+ lines of code. I shut ms off after hitting enter at the end of the upload and unplugged the boot jumper. Bear in mind center led still wasn't on but it said it uploaded the code. I open tuner studio ms and it says com 3 is not a valid port no bluetooth device connected or whatever. Prior to all this i configured my spare usb port for my usb to serial adapter (purchased from diyautotune as they say these have no problems with them.......ok......i have a problem now sooooooo.....) so i cant get the ecu online with tunerstudio ms.
Good stuff. I'll go ahead and jump on the ms forum. Hopefully i can get this sorted and didn't break anything.
Small edit:
When you do use the usb to serial adapter (MAKE SURE YOU GET IT FROM DIYAUTOTUNE BECAUSE THEY ARE KNOWN WORKING UNITS. OTHERS HAVE COM ISSUES BY DESIGN), go to communications and then options in tuner studio ms and you can change com port. However i dont know if you need to mess with the baud rate or driver select. I'll get there though. I'll be hanging out in here for a little bit i guess. Ransacking around on xmas eve trying to find a 12v dc power source. I know i have a couple. Just need to find them. 9v battery is good for one thing and one thing only. Testing the led's on your stimulator. I'm glad i started with an ms1 and jimstim tbh. Bit of confusion with Pin 2, pin 36 and pin 24. I have my shielded wire on pin 24, is this correct? If that's the case, where does pin 2 go? and is pin 36 used to drive the coil/to power transistor/ignitor?
Black 89Turbo: (2012-12-26 00:48:25)
yes you need to make sure the Baud rates correct. Thats important. Most common is 115200. Are you using the factory ignitor?
slammedfc: (2013-01-01 23:37:24)
I'll change the baud rate. I left it alone.
Got them talking. However, my d18 led isn't doing squat. It's not burned up. The solder joints aren't cold. I have no opening flash. If ms wasn't getting power my stim wouldn't be able to tell ms to tell tuner studio what i'm doing to the stim so she's definately getting power.
Only led's that come on when i fire the stim attached to the megasquirt (no pc interface) are:
Stim-power
Stim-fiddle
Stim-fuel pump
Fiddle and fuel pump cut on together and then cut off a second after. No flash. Just solid on then off.
With stim+ms+pc+tuner studio i only see the following working on dashboard:
02
Map
Coolant temp
Air intake temp
Tps and rpm aren't showing up. Like i can crank the dashpot either way and it doesn't move on TS dashboard.
MSextra code did upload to the cpu successfully though.
I have a ka24de coil and ignitor. I also have one of those inline bulky ignitors and a vg30e coil. I'm sure the ka ignitor could trigger the larger vg30e coil. No reason it shouldn't, right?
I have 2 ka tps, 1 auto maxima tps and one mtx 300z/s12 tps. Prolly will use the auto since that's what blozup suggested is the proper one to use.
I still have a while to troubleshoot and make decisions. I have to try and get it started/running this month though. I'm going to get ahold of some rx7 s4 na injectors so that should make finding a basemap easier. Timing map may be a problem though with high compression. I'll be running 93 octane.
I can't say it's a giant pain in the ass. I just have alot going on at the moment aside from fiddling with this ms. Lol.
slammedfc: (2013-01-03 07:35:24)
Baud rates:
9600-ms1
115200-ms2
Extra info for setup: (ms1/2)
data bits: 8
Stop bits: 1
FLOW CONTROL: NONE
Rate is system dependent. I have an ms1 v2.2 pcb. Any chance the led (or some power component to) failed with the boot jumper in place to upload the extra code? If i alligator clip my led's to test, where do i apply juice? 5v or 12v?
troubleshooter: (2013-01-05 02:15:43)
slammedfc - I just uploaded the latest msextra II code today, and I had to remove the jumper only halfway through the process, it then took at least ten more minutes for the code to finish uploading. It sounds like you quit as soon as you pulled off the jumper. If so, you might want to go through the process again and follow all the prompts. I was able to connect to tuner studio as soon as it was finished.
slammedfc: (2013-01-12 17:12:34)
No sir. I uploaded extra code the first time. I had my com ports incorrect. That's fixed. Baud rate is what it should be at for my ms1 unit. I'll be testing my fuel pump, enrichment and injector led's on the ms tonight possibly. I've been busy all week cutting, welding, thinking, etc....
slammedfc: (2013-03-31 06:51:19)
Also, @ black89turbo, have you considered trying out edis 6? If your ignition signal is all over the place you are probably getting noise from somewhere. Your signal wire fully sheilded? Using stock? If so, maybe might want to try using a shielded cable from diyautotune or a music store just to rule out that possibility.
I've picked up my wideband of choice (experimental, never heard of it but i'll disclose more later. I like testing products out that aren't well known.) and 460cc high z rx7 injectors. last on the list is the BIP driver install, proper jumper/ms mods to get this hooker to run and adding the 1k 1/4w pullup between the 12v and green signal wire. I too have a pathy dizzy. If this doesn't work out i will be upgrading to a 6 plug coil pack and run edis. Would take me 2 days and $70 MAX to drop my pulley off, get it turned and get the wheel pressed and tacked it.
Blozup, your msI v2.2 info is down on your site. =(
Black 89Turbo: (2013-04-04 02:42:59)
I Got everything sorted out ect. put a bit of miles on it in a short amount of time. Switched chassis, motors(3.3), ect and should be up and running shortly.
slammedfc: (2013-05-02 02:05:44)
Same here. I opted to use a prw-2 ignitor and some other stuff so i can use the coil bracket i already have. Bout ready to toss it in the car soon and see what happens but i'm going to boot the code again just to be sure it's ALL on there. I know without a doubt if anything bigtime slows me down now it'll be megasquirt itself and something i did wrong to it. These are good units, it's usually US that mess it up. Fingers crossed nothing is messed up and all my solder joints are proper!
onefast87: (2013-05-18 08:54:40)
Question
Using this diagram
http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_arti…80zx_turbo.htm
The 12v+ , is this constant power or key on??
slammedfc: (2013-05-18 08:59:02)
You need to right click the diagram directly and use img code if you want people to see that without wanting to put their head through their monitor or throw their phone at a wall in frustration.
Are you talking about the the 1k pullup resistor for the distributor wiring? I would say if that's the case, KEY ON. No reason for that wiring to see any sort of power without megasquirt being on and active.
slammedfc: (2013-06-02 00:59:24)
Batch fire order i wired up today was Bank 1: 1,3,5 Bank 2: 2,4,6. Please stop me if i am wrong! =)
BLOZ UP: (2013-06-03 16:32:09)
Meh, it's good enough. Firing order is 123456, so you have even distribution. As even as it can get.
123
456 would be worse.
I think.
slammedfc: (2013-06-04 04:36:06)
We'll find out. Prolly more confident with that decision having read that from ya. thanks!
I've also dug into batch fire vs sequential bigtime and its def something i want to learn more about at a later date. That injector batch grouping (123) (456) was said to work on inline six engines but considering the source i wouldn't take it to heart. . I had seen there are two of the four cas/distributor wires that are primary and secondary trigger. I'll be going off the primary(?) wire to my ms to fire trailing edge off the oem six slot ring and just de-pin the other on the harness plug? Also heard inverted yes and inverted no when using the oem prw-2 ignitor chip. Mostly inverted "yes". Easy to get confused and either destroy it or get no starts over something small. Have came entirely too far. Lol. I haven't wired up my coil/ignitor and did just about everything else.
Black 89Turbo: (2013-06-05 02:29:08)
135, 246, works flawless.
You Want the wire that goes to the 6th tooth side of the wheel…There are 4 wires. power, ground, 360 slot, 6 slot.
I will be wiring wiring in the PRW, how did you wire yours? As for Inverted ect, I would assume you use the "same" as factory would use or what you would have previsoulsy used because you don't change the OEM computer settings when swapping ignitors.
If you want I could probably send you my map if you want or interested in it for shits and giggles.
slammedfc: (2013-06-05 03:56:56)
Thanks. The "guess and check" recommended in the manuals: Test by turning the key to on position without cranking it and if the coil or ignitor gets warm, you done ffff'd up and need to go back and fix it before you melt things. I'd rather not put any strain on this stuff. I have two ignitors, 3 coils but only 1 megasquirt. Lol.
with the other driver choice i had (bosch bip) you'd set it to inverted because the ms isn't pinned directly off the - side of the coil. I'
G-E: (2013-06-05 05:51:27)
Consider that the z31 was 1-2-3 & 4-5-6 until the recall, then it became 1-3-5 & 2-4-6 fire order… both work, the former should be more responsive to quickly increasing airflow
slammedfc: (2013-06-06 17:14:33)
I'll try both if the later doesn't work out. I'm without a doubt going to use spark output A/d14 on inverted "going high". Best way to test is turn the key to "on" but not "run" and if it starts getting hot, it's wrong. lol.
Power transistor wires on mine (using i believe a dohc s13 240sx plug on vg30e 3 pin transistor) are as follows : green with black stripe (?), Black (obvious ground is obvious, to chassis?) and white.
I think white goes to + coil terminal and green w/black stripe goes to pin 36. - coil terminal goes to black wire on power transistor and then to chassis ground? That should be the last of my ecu essentials. Still learning that "E" part of ms1e on the board. Wiring to me is HARD. Lol. I can mess with software and drive all day. =D
Just to save a headache:
Anyone have a pinout diagram of the prw 2 ptu?
I went through the "upgrade how to" thread. Can't find the damn thing in the fsm. Actually can't find ignition at all in my 240sx or m30 fsm to verify wire color. Which pins go where? I'd rather just go by pinout. I know z31's have two wires switched up. Been running around in circles for hours for answers. Lol.
slammedfc: (2013-06-15 14:29:52)
Pinout of the prw2 to megasquirt if you're looking at the front of the unit with the lettering:
1. to coil -
2. Ground
3. Pin 36 (or whatever pin your spark output A is on)
That's how it's designed to function. Black89Turbo and Carl H were kind enough to help out since the stock ignitors are talked about but you really dont need to use them unless you have a fuel-only computer you're converting to run spark and use the newer style oe transistors or bypassing the equipped transistor with the newer ms units that have build in spark control as a standard feature.
slammedfc: (2013-06-28 02:55:30)
Pin 36 is not specific to my board. I said screw all that mess and my x11/x12/x13/x14 are joined to pin 2 and 3 of the bosch coil driver. It's so tiny. Like 1/20th the size of a prw2. Just mounted it to my case lid. For pull up on tach signal i have a trace that runs from the non banded side of d5 all the way to an empty spot near r29. I'm going from that to the banded side of d9 for my 12v pullup. I'll find out if this is correct or not then i can proceed with setup/final install. Yay! Everything is vague and jumbled i find so it's been a huge pita but getting help. Gotta love megasquirt tech support!
slammedfc: (2013-07-01 21:10:09)
Back again. Not sure if anyone even lurks or hangs out in this section. The jim stim is worth it's weight in gold. MS is officially "ready to run" as stand alone with all input/output mods done aside from launch control. I have faith in the stock six slot trigger wheel from what you guys have been able to do with them. That stays. I feel my tach/rpm signal wires are shielded well but if i get noise i will install the wheel and see what difference it'll make. I do have D5 as is. I have NOT jumpered it. megamanual says it's there for signal stability so i left it be. Noticed no problems running it like this on the stim. So far so good.
BLOZ UP: (2013-07-04 20:52:55)
I never had mis-triggers/sync loss with the stock 6 slot wheel. I swapped to a 12-1 (x2) wheel that DIYAutoTune sold for the 280Z/ZX guys, but It's been giving me problems ever since. Like sync loss at specific rpms (2100, 2500 mostly). I've had to enable filtering, and for a while starting was a huuuge pain due to massive sync loss, but that's mostly gone. I'm slowly upping the filter settings bit by bit in the hopes the sync loss goes away.
G-E: (2013-07-04 22:00:26)
I might suggest looking into shielding, but it's also possible your alt is making dirty power
Black 89Turbo: (2013-07-06 16:39:28)
I lurk, I wish I had a Stim. Anyhow, I never really had a issue with sinc loss ect AFTER I figured everything out. Once I figured out how everything correlates it was solid. Right now as I sit it would be running but......someone decided not to put ass. lube on the New Isky cam and I decided to crank the car over....the rest is history haha. New heads on, Cams on its way to isky and the new one will be turned around almost same day. We should be ready to fire up shortly after. I will update the build thread.
Still have to figure out how to hook up the Factory tach to the MS, Figure out launch control, antilag ect..
slammedfc: (2013-07-06 19:12:42)
I need a link to your build thread and you should totally get a stim kit. Just be sure to get extra jumpers. They only include 3 but you might want extra for group system tests.
Blozup, that's consistent with some of the things i've encountered in my research. Thanks.
Black 89Turbo: (2013-07-07 14:16:30)
I wish I would have purchased a stim by now. Being this far along, I doubt I will. http://z31performance.com/showthread…d-life-crisis!
slammedfc: (2013-07-11 21:18:06)
I have the basic tuner studio for now. Just literally finished burning my settings (screwed up and had everything at 140-150kpa when my map sensor is good to 250kpa so this is the 3rd redo. I had it right my first go but the tune wouldn't burn, was tired and forgot to change the rpm and kpa values...... That's ok though considering i'm working up to that "first start" checklist and idle.
Got confused when i go to lambda/ego settings. Same with barometric correction so i will leave those alone for now. Accel enrichment is disabled. Target AFR to alter the VE is disabled. Not sure what to use for flood clear values or how to set up my rev limiter. Right now it's 6 sparks. Hard, soft and boost cut is 3 out of 6. Not sure if that's right. I dunno how to post my tables here. Car cranks over fine without the ms. Just making sure all my relays/power strips/buss boxes are in order before i hook er up. Rain wont cut me a break today guys.
my dwell is 6.0m/s crank and 2.0m/s run with a .5 m/s minimum discharge period. I've been reading back through this thread and several of the tuner studio settings arn't discussed. I have the free version. I take it i'd have to upgrade for sensor calibration? I have tps sensor calibration and that's it. I'm running a nissan/stock coolant temp sensor, not GM.
slammedfc: (2013-07-14 19:54:36)
So i'm good but unsure if i'm getting spark. I'm sitting in the car right now trying to crank it. Everything reads fine. Gm sensors, tps is calibrated.
She acted like she wanted to start and almost did. What was the deal with using the pathfinder dizzy. 99 percent sure that's what i've got. Downpipe straight reeks of gas. My cranking rpm was set to 200 (never got above 185 rpm off the starter), i tried 300 Nada. Also tried less fuel at the cranking temp values my sensor is giving me now (bout 94* coolant temp and the car has just been sitting. It's HOT today. I'm pouring sweat as i type this.
Um coil doesn't get warm or anything. My 12v to coil if you're looking at the thing from the TOP is on the right. Ground is on the left. Chances i have this backwards are? I'll try again tomorrow. Not much luck today. At least ms is picking everything up like it's supposed to. =D Almost there guys!
What i may need to look at is someone elses cranking/priming/dwell screenshots. You can pm them if you prefer. I'd appreciate it either way. Worst case " DOH! "scenario after adjusting a few things while eating lunch is i have the dizzy 180 out.... Meaning i'm at tdc on the exhaust stroke, not compression. That'd give me some misfires and intake backfires though, wouldn't it? I have none of that going on. I did take plug wire one off and put a spare plug on it and put it to the chassis while someone cranked. No spark at all but for a split second she acted like she wanted to turn over. I audibly heard ignition exhaust pulses in rapid succession.
slammedfc: (2013-07-15 00:52:02)
Ran out of time/daylight/energy for the day but decided "HEY, lets take this dizzy apart and check the disk inside" I am getting verified cas signal from it on the tuner studio dashboard and led. Did see my rotor was LOOSE! The screw wasn't tightened down all the way so i lined up the cam gears with the marks and stuffed a rag in the hole. Here's where i stopped. Is this square hole gonna cause me an issue? 5 slits, one square hole..... Maybe it's picking up the wrong edge? Maybe i'm set wrong for it? Idk.
[archived image: IMG_20130714_201209_zpsfbcf0685.jpg]
[archived image: IMG_20130714_201227_zps4edbc6e9.jpg]
I'm using a maxi cap, i'm 90 percent sure this is a pathfinder dizzy. You can see the sharpie mark for no. 1 point under the cap. I'm aware maxi points are off in relation to plug wire location and accounted for that before i initially stabbed it.
G-E: (2013-07-15 01:12:46)
Now would be a great time for RSB-07 upgrade [archived image: smile.png]
slammedfc: (2013-07-15 09:02:51)
You may have lost me there. J30 maxima cas/dizzy? Please do elaborate. I'll try and find one tomorrow. My motor came out of a clean 3rd gen maxi. No dizzy. They seem to be the first thing gone when those cars show up to my local place.... Pathfinder dizzy gets left alone. Maybe your suggestion reasons have something to do with that?
Does the optical disk differ from that of the pathfinder?
slammedfc: (2013-07-15 22:41:16)
It's definitely different (cas disk square slot to rotor contact location) got a 3rd gen maxi dizzy and cap off a clean enough car today and this is what i saw when i pulled the cover.
[archived image: IMG_20130715_142848_zps3470ab2f.jpg]
No spark. I"m going to check back through the ignition hardware manual for the single onboard driver. Maybe i missed something. if you look at the back of the coil at the top of the "T" The right side would be the coil + correct? I flipped them around after no spark and ended up burning a 15a fuse on the coil relay trying it again so probably had it right the first time. Anyone running ms1 v2.2 with the onboard driver please hit me up. Maybe i have the legs wrong or something isn't jumpered right.
slammedfc: (2013-07-16 15:03:49)
Ok well ignition output wiring theoretically and visually is fine. CHecked over and over the schematic as well as my own connections several times. Optical distributor has D5 in place for nissan diagram on the megamanual. This one does not. One is related to tach imput (which i'm getting) just no spark output....... ffffff. Anyway, trying it like this. D8 is ALREADY jumpered. D5 is not so i'm going to tell it to gtfo with a piece of snipped lead as soon as i brush my teeth and get out the office maybe tach input is working clear enough to give me a signal on tuner studio but wont tell my coil to fire. Idk. it's a mystery. All these megasquirted diy cars are mysteries when they first get going........
[archived image: msns-schematic1.jpg]
Big thanks to Russ for at least trying to help me get this party started. It'll happen, just not sure when. My car doesn't like me and i'm used to that so just keeping my cool. =D
If someone would to be so kind to send me their ms1 v2.2 codebase setup screen shot that works with stock dizzy (trigger disk type/make/model required or it's irrelevant) i'd be thrilled. Maybe that's why i'm not hitting spark also. Could be about 3 or 4 small things that could turn into big things if not set correctly so who cares where the square slot is if ms is getting tach signal from BOTH distributors i have in my hands right here right now.
slammedfc: (2013-07-16 17:58:31)
Actually megasquirt cares where the square slot is. This crap may have something to do with why it's not doing it's job maybe?
This is mine off t/s. For anyone viewing DO NOT USE ANY SETTINGS POSTED:
[archived image: IMG_20130716_123938_zpsf9d148f1.jpg]
[archived image: IMG_20130716_123955_zps55f50fd4.jpg]
slammedfc: (2013-07-18 04:43:45)
Repeat, disregard the above post. Dont touch that ish. If you have a STOCK wheel your distributor should have "MSNS" selected, wheel decoder off. That isn't why i wasn't getting spark. ON my ms1 v2.2 board D8 and D5 BOTH had to be jumpered. The nissan dizzy diagram i had only had D8 jumpered. No mention of doing anything with d5. D5 jumped gave me spark. Longest idle yesterday was 10 seconds. THen come to find out i had my injectors set up incorrectly after finding a chart on hybridz. Everything was set wrong for my injectors as well as the injectors for the base map i was using and playing with which makes me wonder how the creator got an idle or decent tune out of it at all to even suggest that msq to me.....which i'm not posting because it's way off. Timing/ve/target afr is all good tho.
http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/5591…-spread-sheet/
slammedfc: (2013-07-18 21:13:51)
Starting to think my dizzy is off now because i swear she wants to start. I noticed no change switching between the j30 and D21 distributors. Any way to re-clock the disks in these? I'm real close to just saying screw it and buying the decoder wheel because these whole dizzy disk/rotor point crap is probably whats doing me in right now. Lol. Going to put my pathfinder dizzy back in and see if anything changes....
Apparently the location of the SQUARE slot, ROTOR and PICKUP SENSOR make all the difference? I dunno. It's like stuff was put out there about the dizzy's and nobody ever cared to dig deeper into it until i got my hands dirty. Rest assured i love getting my hands dirty! I'll be back. Hopefully with good news..... Meh.
Alrighty. Pathfinder dizzy is stabbed in as of 20 minutes ago pointing to rotor 1. Required fuel is for 460cc injectors alternating even fire 6x6 inj to cylinder. I just used the calculator in ts. something like 7.2 or 7.3 m/s. I used the values from the chart in my last post to calibrate the injectors.
Maybe i need an external fpr? If i cut the fuel pump off it will burn what's left in the line and wants to idle til that fuel is gone. I cut the pump on and it stalls it out...... I keep dialing my ve table back. It's not timing. Def fuel now..... I have a rather stout pump. wally 340 or something. Def bigger than a 255. Came with the car. Stock FPR though.
Should i shorten my pulsewidths? Need help. Badly.
Careless: (2013-07-18 21:46:41)
doodface… dew yoursmellf a flavour and get a used, known-working, Z31 dizzifyer.
I bought a 16E01 Maxima unit, and it caused me grief for two fuckn years, chasing electrical problems.
I put the dirty old 88T unit from my donor vehicle on the car and it finally ran like it did when I bought the car back in like 200whatever.
slammedfc: (2013-07-18 22:09:57)
It wants to run when i cut the fuel pump off. I starve all the remaining gas out of it with the pump off and i get a good 5-6 seconds of idle.
I'd actually like to see the disk inside of an 88 turbo. Specifically the square slot in relation to the rotor.
Careless: (2013-07-18 22:16:37)
that's normal. i prob get close to 10 seconds before it goes kaput completely.
slammedfc: (2013-07-18 22:26:18)
Meh. This sucks. I need to get this thing running soon. I keep missing events. I need to drive/kill tires. =(
BLOZ UP: (2013-07-19 17:00:59)
Get a carb.
Careless: (2013-07-19 17:02:29)
http://www.ronsfuel.com/flying_toilet.cfm
slammedfc: (2013-07-20 01:24:00)
Lol. FPR failed. I DO see what you did there. Nice try. [archived image: wink.png]
slammedfc: (2013-08-20 20:31:01)
Installed a flyback to try and run the car on some 259cc lows and all of them were clogged. Got some high z to match my one that was clogged (car was trying to run on 5 this whole time.....) and was trying to test those. Didn't get a chance to even plug one into the pigtail i had put into the stim terminals. **the stim is a fantastic way to bench test injectors.** Had some failure to c15. LUCKY that is all that failed. All my highs had to be tested on a 9v battery at this point....
[archived image: IMG_20130816_143605_zpsed546413.jpg]
It's still kinda mysterious to me given it ran for 2 hours on a low impedance injector setting literally pulsing an injector for me so i could verify it was working. Nothing even got warm. It ran fine. 15 minutes of warmup time (no injector plugged into the stim output) after setting the constants for high z injector was all it took. That's crazy.
[archived image: IMG_20130813_133741_zps06759be6.jpg]
You can clearly see the difference in color in the capacitor. It wasn't installed backwards. Some solder made it's way into the shell somehow. Initially i thought it exploded until what i thought was melted lead came off as a bead and bounced on the table. I didn't notice it previously and probably didn't do all that great of an inspection job. That's the only explanation i have. Settings were correct for high z injectors.
1.00 m/s opening time
.20 batt/v correction
100% pwm current limit
25.4 m/s time threshold
Initially i thought it was a voltage issue but i get CLEAN 12v signal in real time view.
Also had an issue with my coil getting very hot and my relay was clicking on and off. The coil itself sounded as though it was poping and clicking loudly also. No change from original wiring. It had never done that before. Not for days being cranked for hours on did it ever exhibit such behavior. This was AFTER installation of the flyback because i had put the 259 lows in the rail and had to test on the car because i was checking rail pressure, spray pattern and pump voltage as well.
I'll see what happens soon enough. It's always been fuel fuel fuel. I get that straight and my ecu is attacking. Lol.
BLOZ UP: (2013-08-21 17:40:34)
I've never trusted the MS flyback circuit. I wanted to install it to run my low-z injectors without resistors, but after hearing stories of flyback noise interfering with the other sensors I've delayed it. Maybe I'll get a MS3 to do that… but at MS3's price it's not much more to get a Haltech…
onefast87: (2013-08-22 11:43:57)
If anyone wants to share their timing map that would be sweet.
Or send your msq if ifs easier.
charger_6_9@hotmail.com
slammedfc: (2013-08-23 06:33:44)
I hate getting kicked out due to forgetting to clicking "remember me" mid-post.
Anywho car idles at 750rpm around 18* at 13.8-14.2afr at 40 psi fuel pressure on 460cc injectors. Did not log it. I was going to see if i had enough juice to start from a battery jump and it just decided it was going to run all by itself first try. I'll log it next go around but current ve, spark and target afr tables i have burned in now are worth sharing. I dont suggest ANYONE use these maps. They need work! I am not responsible if you blow your engine.
Afr target table was turned off. I need to read up more on that style of tuning AFTER i tweak the ve table to allow me to free rev with some freakin throttle response.
BLOZ UP: (2013-08-23 20:50:50)
Wow I run a lot more timing. Remind me to post it when I get to my tuning laptop.
slammedfc: (2013-08-29 22:10:41)
For using na pistons on shaved heads with 460cc injectors i wasn't sure where to start really.
Going to work that ve table first. That's where my problems are now.
aceman85turbo: (2013-08-29 22:54:24)
I havent looked at my map much but i seem to remember 36-37* total timing in some of the high load low boost areas
slammedfc: (2013-08-29 23:48:52)
Yeah, i think i need to take a look at some maps. Couldn't hurt. Would love to see injector settings for bigger injectors and know what your base fuel pressure is also. I'm in the car now (sweaty, getting eaten by mosquitos.....) letting it cool off. backed it out of the driveway and moved it forward and backward playing with my new clutch (nothing to it and i've never driven a paddle clutch before). had my dizzy turned full counter clockwise and that was too much. Bolt in the middle of the dizzy has it doing alot better.
At 165* i'm able to free rev into the 5000 range. I raised idle to 1000rpm and it's at 14.7 It's running stoich there quite beautifully. I rev up and it gets into the 15's. Car hasn't moved on it's own power in 2 years.
slammedfc: (2013-12-04 04:16:48)
Been driving it all week. Boosting and all that jazz. Again, this is with a d21 dizzy, trigger wheel and sleeve under a maxima cap working fine. Lots of fun. I'm in the high 15-16 afr range in cruise/low throttle, goes into the 13's under hard accelleration while boost builds and 12 into the 10's in boost from 3500 to 6000 rpm. I need a screen shot of a good working ACCEL DECEL TRIGGER DOT setup.Also wanting to see your numbers for accel enrichment wizard to compare with my own. If you are an ms1 user please pm me or shoot me an email. Thanks.
slammedfc: (2014-03-16 22:42:08)
Still driving/tuning it. If you have done updates and run the MS1 v2.2 E do make sure your auto tune box is checked OFF while it's calculating before you hit "start auto tune".
I do map comparisons and change my cell weighting manually to see what it does vs using that whole generated map. Still looking at getting some help (pm or public) at what people have used as far as coolant/air density settings. mine is turned OFF.
I did some hooning yesterday and played with my idle in the driveway, it went pretty lean and i wasn't out of gas. Then after much fiddling i didn't realize my MAT WAS AT 125*F. Intercooler wasn't warm. Cold pipe was due to the proximity to unwrapped exhaust components. Car didn't like that. I shut it off, put my custom "default" map in and let it sit for a few hours. Went to the store. Then drove it 30 miles, sat in a drive thru for 10 minutes. Fine. Drove it today pulling some fuel from my boost section. Ran fine. Obviously there's some work to be done still. That's tuning.
TS suggests that the coolant/air density be messed with only after you have a solid tune. Still working at balancing my rising rate fpr with the ve. I'm hitting walls in boost. Right now i'm too rich and MIGHT have spark blow out occurring.....
Nobody likes posting their maps and that's a shame. In a few days i'll be posting my work so far. Will disappear for a bit then i'll be back again with the knock amplifier. I got a little 2 channel 3.5mm aux in amp coming in so i can not only listen to music but play knock through my speakers. The old cylinder head temp port looks about right for that? Where should i mount my knock amp? I've heard cylinder head and i've heard side of the block in stock location. I think one of the heads might be a better bet but that's just my opinion.
Again, if anyone needs help setting up their ms1 v2.2 i dont mind answering questions in pm or otherwise. I hope to have a safe tune for 10 psi on 460cc rx7 injectors with the higher compression na pistons to allow someone to have a base map to get them SEAT TIME. Not everyone can do pulls on the dyno and pay for tuning outright.
Black 89Turbo: (2014-03-23 03:21:27)
Got the setup over here running rather gnarly.
Black 89Turbo: (2014-03-25 14:26:27)
…
BLOZ UP: (2014-03-25 16:12:47)
Runs of the coil negative, IIRC. Easy.
Black 89Turbo: (2014-03-25 19:37:22)
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Black 89Turbo: (2014-03-25 20:07:39)
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Attached Files
Tach.jpg (20.5 KB)