Forums/Z31P/z31-performance-upgrade-forums engine-management/02 Sensor Swap Information
Imported from Z31Performance.com Forums{{#if:bemis| — original post by bemis}}{{#if:2007-06-19 22:30:24|, posted 2007-06-19 22:30:24}}{{#if:50| · 50 post{{#ifeq:50|1||s}}}}{{#if:/Z31performance_archive/forum/z31-performance-upgrade-forums/engine-management/2690-02-sensor-swap-information.html|
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bemis: (2007-06-19 22:30:24)
This Sticky was designed to address the issue of 02 sensor swapping, between Titania and Zirconia, due to engine harness or ECCS changes.
Using the information here, one should be able to easily swap 02 sensors if they have basic reading and wiring skills.
Here's the difference between the two sensors:
Here's how the two different 02 sensor styles are wired up according to the Factory Service Manual:
Here's a list of what kind of 02 sensor came with the Z31's from the factory:
1984-1985; 1987-1989 NA: Zirconia
1986 NA & Turbo: Titania
1987-1989 Turbo: Titania
The ECCS is designed to only use one type of 02 sensor, either Titania or Zirconia. No exceptions.
SATAN: (2007-06-19 22:56:46)
And there it is. Now use this info people. I know I will be!
MrwassmanNA2T: (2007-06-20 06:59:29)
So the titania has to have voltage sent to it.
Is that comparison diagram out of an 87-89 since they had both?
Zed31: (2007-06-20 12:42:02)
Dude, YOU RULE! You have answered the one question that has been bugging me for about two weeks. Definitely sticky this.
got boost?: (2007-06-20 23:19:06)
Is the M30 ECCS O2 sensor Titania or Zirconia?
bemis: (2007-06-21 03:35:17)
titania
MrwassmanNA2T: (2007-06-21 05:58:03)
haha, its been like 6 months and i am just figuring out that I just need to run the 12 volt power from the fuel pump relay to the titania sensors heating element. :lol:
JustinCase: (2007-06-21 22:47:07)
I've been looking for this for weeks…
But i'm having a hard time understanding the route it's listed.
Going from 89NA to 87T o2 & ECU.
Someone let me know if i'm getting this right:
The late model turbo shares the same general wiring on the green and black wires. I need to relocate the yellow wire from point 115 on the ECU to grounding point 36F:
So, I could just reroute the wire from the harness to the plenum ground instead of it going through to the ECU.
This is how i am interpriting the FSM wiring diagram, it seems like a fairly simple swap to go from Zirconia to Titania. I've always heard this was a tedius wiring job. :-?
G-E: (2007-06-23 22:14:07)
someone post the 86 diagram that has the large bung titania with 3 wires
MrwassmanNA2T: (2007-06-26 07:04:54)
JustinCase: (2007-07-03 04:34:53)
Is there something i need to look at on the 86T diagram?
I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me.
CAG8OR: (2007-07-04 18:41:33)
I have some questions as well pertaining to the '86T harness. As you can see from the shcematic above the later model ('87-89) turbo cars should have a four pin connector (40F) at the O2 sensor. Mine ('86 turbo)has a three pin connector which is identical to the N/A connector (35F) which is supposed to correspond to the zirconia sensor.
Here is the bone; I had installed an '84T JWT ECU around five years ago. When I did, I removed the titania sensor and installed the zirconia unit by swapping out the bushing in the elbow. The car ran perfect and I never thought about this until a week ago reading from here. On Sunday, I pulled the ECU and reinstalled the '86 turbo ECU and titania sensor. The bushing was seized this time and was a real PITA to remove, but I got it out after major coaxing from an impact gun. The car runs identical as before. If I was running in open loop before due to zero feedback from the O2 sensor, I should have been able to notice some sort of difference right? Why does the '86T harness not have the four pin connector? Is the '86T harness unique in this regard? If you order an O2 sensor for a '87-89 turbo car, will you get a three or four pin connector installed on it?
CAG8OR: (2007-07-04 18:53:51)
Ooops, I did not notice the '86T schematic link above. Thanks, that answers alot of questions. I still am not so sure why my car seemed to run fine with the zirconia sensor & '84T ECU without relocating the ground wire in the harness. I am also having some issues with what the FSM states about the titania sensor. It says that the ECU supplies the sensor with one volt and compares the resistance values using a comparitor. Does it supply the one volt through the same wire it measures the resistance on? This does not happen on the zirconia sensors? What is the purpose of pin 115 on the ECU? I thought this was a ground, which would make the wiring identical electrically.
MrwassmanNA2T: (2007-07-05 05:10:22)
The 86T's sensor makes no sense. Heater 2 wires? and signal…what?
Or is it heater source (+) in, grounded through housing (PTC, so it automatically stays temp needs to be) and 1 volt reference in and signal out?
CAG8OR: (2007-07-05 05:47:44)
I agree, waiting for clarification. Something is not right here.
JustinCase: (2007-07-05 15:57:26)
Anyone happen to know the thread info for the titania & zirconia sensors? Trying to get a bung made from my local college and he needed to know.
I think i have tomorrow off so i'm going to just pull my 02 sensor and drive my other car to the school since no one has replied to me.
CAG8OR: (2007-07-06 01:21:34)
Do you want to know the thread size for the bushing that screws into the elbow or the thread size of the O2 sensor itself? The only one I know off the top of my head is the threads cut into the elbow that the bushing screws into. These are 22mm X 1.5. I will measure the others for you and post them here.
CAG8OR: (2007-07-06 01:43:53)
The zirconia (22mm wrench) has a pitch of 1.5 and measures 17.88 mm on my calipers. That should make it a M18 X 1.5. The Titania (17mm wrench) is a M12 X 1.5 Here is a great link:
http://members.pcug.org.au/~jdeakins/facts.html
Hope this helps you out. I am trying to locate the two different part numbers for the bushings. They are not on the same fiche as the O2 sensors. If anyone has the part numbers, please post.
I found an answer to a previous question from the link above:
With Titania sensors:
Black is Reference (Out)
Red is Reference (In) and Heater (+)
White is Heater (-)
Output is 0 to 1 volts.
So they do use one wire for two purposes! Very interesting. I suppose it should also state input is 1 volt. The link does not state the part numbers from the Z31 fiche though. This is what I got from the fiche for the VG30T sensors:
22690-19P20 - 09/85-09/86
22690-21P10 - 09/86 - 08/87
22690-21P11 - 08/87-
Note the mid year change for the '86, I wonder if this is what makes the '86 different. Mine was an early '86.
JustinCase: (2007-07-06 06:39:25)
Thank you very much. I've been trying for this answer for a few days now. Appreciate it.
seth.mckay: (2007-10-23 17:17:51)
So if I'm going from 87na to 87T. All I have to do is switch the sensor and ground out the yellow wire. Is that correct? It is just what I gather from the diagrams. Thanks guys!
Zed31: (2008-02-11 00:27:33)
Ok, I have an 86NA2T using an 88NA ECU with Nistune. Last night and early this morning I searched through a lot of different places and finally felt confident I knew exactly what to do…SO, here is what I did.
First off, I'm going from the Titania sensor on an 86 to a Zirconia for my 88N/A ECU. Now, my 86 does NOT have the four prong connector like other Titania cars, which I found to be very weird. Also notable is that my car did not have anything coming from Pin 115 on the ECU, which after checking pinouts on Z31.com has been verified. My 24 wire had been cut for some reason, so I found the shielded wire and connected it back the best I could. (Previous owner had a JWT ecu in the car…)
Now, I have made my wiring the same as the diagram as far as I know, and yet I did not get any feedback from the O2 sensor today while checking with Nistune. What have I done wrong?
To Outline what I did: Cut yellow wire on O2 Harness and ran it to pin 115 on the ECU. That's really all I did…I wonder if maybe since I am running a custom exhaust if I should ground my exhaust pipe? My V-band might not be a conductor…
Let me know what you guys think, thanks.
TurboZkid: (2008-08-19 03:24:04)
bump i need more clarification on what CA8OR was saying… is there any way i could just use the zirconia with my 88t ecu and harness?
AE84 sk1Lz31: (2008-09-01 20:21:33)
need some really good quick help. I ran a compression test for the AE and It says that i have a bad O2 sensor. I don't know which one i need. They have the 'BEFORE catalytic converter' in stock for my 84 turbo. 'AFTER' is not in stock. I never heard of this deal before but i believe i do need the BEFORE' right?
ALSO, which one should i get if the 'BEFORE is what i need. I'm going to take it to get smogged so the OEM one would probably be the best bet? They got a universal one for $10 more for a reason i don't know.
THANKS IN ADVANCE.
FlawleZ: (2008-09-01 21:17:16)
How did a compression test lead to you to believe you need a new 02 sensor? You mean an emissions test? If so, the factory 02 sensor that is in discussion of this thread is located before the catalytic converter on the exhaust elbow right after the turbine. You're looking for the 22mm, Zirconium 02 sensor for an 84T. The sensors are all Bosch style replacements.
AE84 sk1Lz31: (2008-09-01 21:25:35)
good fast help and yes whoopsy, i meant emissions test. I took it to my automotive instructor in high school. Really smart guy. Atleast i know they have what i need. THANKS a lot. What other things should i target to make sure i can pass emissions so i don't have to spend another 40-50 dollars to get it smogged again?
FlawleZ: (2008-09-01 21:36:38)
Make sure you have a good, unclogged catalytic converter.
Ensure your IAC, EGR, etc are all functioning correctly.
Just make sure the car is in good running shape in general. Change spark plugs, wires, cap, rotor, etc if need be.
AE84 sk1Lz31: (2008-09-01 21:51:20)
Will do. Good informative response. Thanks.
Andrevas: (2008-09-01 22:04:36)
EVAP system, for those in CA that didn't know it gets checked for functionality now on pre-OBD2 cars
DuoWing: (2009-04-09 06:52:18)
Alright I'm going to drag this thread back. Anyway I'm mildly confused. For one I see it looks like one of the sensors has a ground running off of the Black pin 24 wire? Well I'm beginning to wonder if I have my O2 sensor wired properly. I have a 280ZX Turbo here so this is on an L28ET. I'm running currently an 86' Z31 Turbo ECU with Nistune. I had a bung welded on to my exhaust so I could run the Titania sensor. Here's what I did. I ran the black wire to Pin 24 on the ECU like it should be. I just grounded the negative heater wire to just a spot on the body and I just ran the positive heater wire to an ignition ON 12v source. As far as I can tell this runs correctly, but from what I'm getting out of there it should be run from the fuel pump source as it's a reference wire? I'm planning to switch to a non-turbo ecu with Nistune so I can just go back to running the Zirconia sensor as that's what my L28ETs downpipe is setup for, that way I won't need another bung welded on when I do a new exhaust.
Jersey88z: (2009-05-21 15:49:18)
I'm swapping my T25 for a T3 and I just checked the treads of both O2 sensors. They are M18x1.5 and M12x1.25 (not M12x1.5!!) I was going to drill out and tap a M18x1.5 bolt to screw in the titania sensor, but I couldn't find anything with M18x1.5 tread. Guess I'll wire in the old Zirconia.
Jersey88z: (2009-05-21 16:36:16)
I'm trying to figure out if my 88 turbo computer can use a Zirconia sensor. I seems the two sensers give reading in very different ways. Zirconia is 1V OR 0V where the Titania gives the computer a resistance reading less than 1V. Are the computers different in how they interperet the sensor reading?
Jersey88z: (2009-05-21 16:46:26)
Just as I suspected. Still not sure how the get the damn Titania sensor in that T3 o2 elbow.
Windzer: (2009-05-27 19:37:01)
Have someone with an impact pull out the insert that the o2 bolt sinto out of the exhausts and just use the one you need.
Jersey88z: (2009-06-01 14:42:42)
I didn't think the o2 fitting/bung was the same thread where it screws into the o2 elbow. Sweet! Thanks.
UPDATE: the o2 fittings/bungs can be swapped from elbow to elbow for a T25 to T3 swap. :super
Roach: (2010-08-20 23:55:34)
sooo. my 87 88 or 89 n/a ecu will work with my 88 turbo engine? with or without nistune just for it to start and tune?
michaelp: (2010-08-21 17:41:56)
If you want to use a NA ECU with a turbo, you'll need Nistune to tune it.
ihiryu: (2011-09-24 19:58:28)
My car is an 87T that has an 87NA ecu (fitted with nistune).
The other two wires were the same, the yellow was not, it goes into the ECU on pin 115. I had to add a pin there, since there wasn't one for the 87T harness.
So I have 87T engine and harness, 87NA ecu.
KamaKaZee: (2011-11-06 16:32:43)
Great info....
Too bad the pics are gone :-(
Orbit-Zzz: (2011-11-13 11:44:55)
Hey Guys,
Can you please tell me which O2 sensor I should be using for this 86 N/A ECU?
1986 23710-18P03/A18-650M24
I think it should be the Titania type but just want to be sure so the mixture ratio feedback works.
Also, would I need to get a genuine or would a aftermarket one work?
johnnyboy110: (2011-12-03 14:46:47)
Now my question is, will using the wrong O2 sensor(eg.86na with a Zirconia O2) make the car run worst than not having an O2 sensor hooked up at all???
I just swap an 87na engine into an 86na and started it up no prob with no o2 hooked up. I realized it wasn't hooked up and so I plugged it in. Now the car wont idle or run unless I give it gas. Help please
Roach: (2011-12-03 16:02:15)
Yeah it'll work fine you'll just sacrifice gas mileage and a good afr. I did it and boosted often with no issues. In turn it may have helped me running slightly rich.
csgt428: (2012-04-03 18:41:31)
I replaced my dead 88zx T25 with an 84 T3 turbo. When the oxygen sensor from my 88 didn't fit I cut the wires and used the 84 oxy sens with the 88 harness plug. They were both 3-wire with red white and black wires so I just used wire connectors and shrink wrap. The car seems to run fine, no issues even though the T3 oxy sens (I just discovered) is supposedly incompatible.....Am I running in "limp mode" or what? Will it hurt my ecu? It sounds like I could just swap out the bungs in the down pipes (assuming it will come out) but I'm not having any pre-ignition pinging or runability problems going on even though I'm using my 88 ecu. Everybody was saying I'd have problems but I'm not. (YET) Any ideas? I don't want to kill my ecu or damage the engine. If it is running a little richer due to the incorrect oxy sens mabey that's a good thing?
michaelp: (2012-04-03 19:17:12)
Get a O2 bung from a 86 or 87 turbo and swap it out (it just threads in…), or the 88-89 one may work, not sure....
BTW, Z31s runner richer than stock is never a good thing…they run waaay too rich as it is. LOL Anyways, 86 and 87s have T3s with the proper O2 sensor for 88-89 turbo ECUs.
csgt428: (2012-04-03 19:31:56)
Wow, that was fast. Thanx for the info. So, do you mean I can buy a new oxy sens for an 86-7 T3 turbo that will fit in my 84 T3 downpipe and plug into my 88 harness without changing the bungs out?
michaelp: (2012-04-03 20:09:22)
No, it wont fit in the exhaust elbow from the 84 (its not a downpipe, the downpipe is the piece of exhaust that bolts to the cast elbow that has the o2 sensor)
You still need to swap the bung.
csgt428: (2012-04-03 22:04:48)
OK, thanx. I'm still working on getting the bung out of the 88 elbow. It's in there! A little more PB stuff and back to the 1/2" air wrench. It'll be for nothing if I can't get the bung out of the 84 elbow now in the car… Well, I ran a diagnostic in mode three and sure enough it now has a code 33 (exhaust gas circuit open) as well as a 42 from befor which was the fuel temp sens. Niether one seems to be affecting the runability…lots of power…no pinging or knock. I think I'll check my milage the next time I fill up. It was getting close to 25mpg befor the swap w the turbo frozen up! If it's still in that range or better I don't think I'll worry about it if I can't get the bung out unless it's going to hurt something.....anyone with info about THAT?
ajaxism: (2013-02-12 08:51:04)
^ ban this fucking bot
85300zxnissian: (2013-03-07 02:31:32)
Hey can anyone give me an answer, im really confused. I have a 85na and i just put the turbo on and i have an 87t ecu with a 87t o2 sensor. They both have three wires but my stock o2 sensor had a red white and black wire while my new one has two white and a black. Which wires go where? Someone please help me out I've been trying to figure this stuff out all day.
edwin86z: (2013-03-07 03:54:59)
Hey, I have tried looking for this info, but I have not seen a direct answer yet…
I'm wondering if anyone has tested the voltage output from the titania sensors. Since the sensor is given 1v, and will vary resistance, does the ecu read the affected voltage after resistance, or the resistance value of the sensor?
If the ecu is reading the affected voltage after resistance, that would lead me to believe the output is still a 0-1v signal.
We would then need to see how the resistance/voltage is affected with a/f ratios, and if it matches the zirconia sensors.
What I'm really trying to find out is if the ecu is still just looking for the 0-1v signal for both types of sensors. If it is voltage based after resistance for the titania, it will allow us to use the analog narrowband output from an aftermarket wideband kit (and also use zirconia O2 sensors when swapping ecu/sensors if desired).
I'm hoping to do so with my 86, just got the NA2T swap done with ecu and turbo from another 86 (thanks to Tony's Garage in Cedar Park, Texas). I have the Prosport Evo series wideband kit, I would like to try the analog output with the 86T ecu (titania). I'm not looking for a "it will not work" answer. I just want to know if anyone has read the voltage output from the sensors, and which way they are affected with a/f ratios (0~1v when lean/rich, which way the voltage changes for given afr, and for which sensor).
Thanks in advance!
les_joey_paul: (2014-01-27 14:32:37)
I've been looking at the wiring diagram, on an 85 na going to 87t ecu… It looks like the yellow pin 115 and black pin 36 are identical. The only change appears to be in L in the 85, which after tracing it looks to go to the fuel pump. On the 87t diagram the L wire at the o2 is now a G/w wire that runs to pin 34, sharing the ignition coil now instead of fuel pump