Forums/Z31P/z31-basics basic-modifications-basic-questions-aka-the-newbie-forum/Y u no bleed?
Imported from Z31Performance.com Forums{{#if:Urstin| — original post by Urstin}}{{#if:2015-06-27 16:48:24|, posted 2015-06-27 16:48:24}}{{#if:24| · 24 post{{#ifeq:24|1||s}}}}{{#if:/Z31performance_archive/forum/z31-basics/basic-modifications-basic-questions-aka-the-newbie-forum/25158-y-u-no-bleed.html|
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Urstin: (2015-06-27 16:48:24)
Hey guys. I've bled brakes on several cars before this one, but I can't seem to get this car to fucking cooperate. Everything is new on the car, aside from the power brake booster. I've gone through 3 calipers from RockAuto that were leaking, but the one i currently have isn't. I just can't figure out what is going on. I can visually see with the bleed valves open and a tube hooked into a bottle of brake fluid, that the air has been pushed out of the line. I'm starting at the Driver's side rear caliper and working my way around toward the master cylinder. I've also bled the master cylinder (it's new Beck/Arnley) and have even replaced the bleeder screws for good measure.
There is no brake pressure, until after it's been pumped 3-4 times. Wait a few seconds, the pressure is gone. Could this be a brake booster failure, or perhaps the master cylinder is also faulty?
I'm fed up, but open to advice. Who knows, maybe I just need to attempt with two people
mtherkamp: (2015-06-27 17:05:38)
If u are doing urself, a set of speed bleeders can make the process MUCH easier.
Urstin: (2015-06-27 17:05:53)
When I say new:
New mastery cylinder
New SS hoses everywhere
New rear calipers
New lines in places, and new rotors/pads everywhere.
Urstin: (2015-06-29 18:05:07)
Ordered a new brake booster. I've come to the conclusion that it's the brake booster because a) I have $123. b) what's another $123 at a car that has over $2400 of new parts on but is only worth $1400. c) if nothing is leaking, and everything is bled, why else would the pedal fall to the ground? Vacuum leak?
flatfoot: (2015-06-30 04:34:33)
Hate to tell you its not the booster.
All the booster does multiply how hard you press down on the brake pedal.
A bad booster is gonna make it really hard to press down on the brakes. It would be like pressing on the brakes with the engine off.
You did bench bleed the master cylinder right?
It sounds like you still have a lot of air in the system
I'm a fan of using a pneumatic vacuum setup to bleed t he brakes. The cheesy hand held vacuum pumps just don't produce enough vacuum volume and I get frustrated using them.
85z31t88: (2015-06-30 04:41:09)
Hardest part is bench bleeding the master cylinder. After that just keep fluid in it while you bleed each corner, starting at the furthest away.
Urstin: (2015-06-30 15:42:23)
I'm hearing you both here. I've bled the master cylinder off the car, and on the car, using short lengths of brake lines fed back into the resv to ensure the fittings aren't sucking in air. I also tried a siphon air-gun. Cracking open each bleeder with the siphon on the bleeder. That worked amazing for the clutch slave cylinder, but no luck on the brakes. Also, point the gun in a rag, or you will risk spraying a mist of brake fluid all over the place lol.
I did have the car on, and when I pumped the brakes a few times, it would stall. That sort of made me suspect a vacuum/seal leak within the booster, as the plunger area was NASTY when I removed the original master-cylinder. I cleaned it up, but maybe it damaged a seal.
Urstin: (2015-07-02 04:22:14)
I've moved onto replacing the power brake booster, and one more caliper. I also took the master off the car, bled it again, then put it on the car and bled it there (no air came out once on the car as well). The old booster did have brake flood by the plunger-thing, and although the pedal is somewhat improved, still not happy. When my roomie gets back in town, I'll try bleeding with two people again. If that doesn't work, maybe the new master is a faulty master cylinder somehow? I'm so stumped. How could a system not be leaking fluid, but keep gaining air.
adamvann3: (2015-07-02 14:53:11)
I always had problems bleeding the Z. 1 person or 2 person I could never gain the pedal pressure or get all the air out. I caved in and purchased a vacuum assist bleeder. No problems since then.
It doesn't make sense, but it works and no more headaches.
Urstin: (2015-07-02 15:33:09)
Any suggestions Adam? I'd rather buy a bleeder than take it to a shop. At least I'll still have my pride! lol
adamvann3: (2015-07-02 18:22:51)
Mityvac vacuum assist is the bees knees if you pony up and bleed anything regularly.
Rather if its just once a year head over to Harbor Freight and just get a hand pump. Anything really that will pull a vacuum, just ensure your BMC doesnt run dry.
I have used both on the Zs with favorable results. I dont know what it is but bleeding the brakes on z31 is my kryptonite --> vacuum assist has been the only way for me to win the battle.
Urstin: (2015-07-06 19:29:45)
I purchased the M800 MityVac unit, took it out of the box, didn't build pressure or create vacuum lol. So I returned it for the cheaper $20 Pittsburgh one, and it works! I'm going to try it out tonight after dinner, and if I have brakes tonight, EVERYONE ON THE FORUMS GETS A FREE KISS. FROM ME!
Urstin: (2015-07-07 04:17:31)
So this thing rocks. However, now I can visually see, my issue is somewhere on the driver's rear. I've already replaced this caliper THREE TIMES, because of a faulty A-1 caliper (it was leaking at the piston seal), but no leaks currently. The hard-line on the control arm has a really funky bend that could be trapping air? Everything after that 3-way block is new on both sides.
adamvann3: (2015-07-07 19:32:42)
Glad to see the vacuum assist worked out. z31s hate manual brake bleeds
Urstin: (2015-07-07 20:59:26)
It's seriously the best dude. I could've saved SO MUCH trouble/brakefluid if I had used this from day one lol. Thanks!
ZR_Down_Undah: (2015-07-08 12:48:44)
Link to the product you used please?
Urstin: (2015-07-08 14:10:07)
Das it mayne:
http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-b…kit-69328.html
It feels every bit of what a Harbor Freight tool is. But for $24, even if you only get one use out of it, it's worth it imo.
Z_Karma: (2015-07-08 17:05:25)
I'd spend a few bucks more and go with a mityvac, i've had mine ~15 years and it still sucks like the day it was new [archived image: wink.png]
Urstin: (2015-07-08 21:30:39)
i started with that one, but it didn't work correctly out of the box. I still find it odd that only one side of the rears is having this issue. Have you guys ever had to replace that 3-way junction thing? I'm trying new lines tonight, but I don't have much faith this will resolve the issue. The brake hoses are brand new Goodrich SS's.
Urstin: (2015-07-09 02:59:29)
So this was my third RockAuto A-1Cardone caliper.... and it's leaking. Returning and buying one from some place else. Tiny leak around the piston seal again.
adamvann3: (2015-07-09 17:06:21)
i started with that one, but it didn't work correctly out of the box. I still find it odd that only one side of the rears is having this issue. Have you guys ever had to replace that 3-way junction thing? I'm trying new lines tonight, but I don't have much faith this will resolve the issue. The brake hoses are brand new Goodrich SS's.
Nope, but I do jack up the rear of the car pretty high so its easier for the air to overcome any trapped areas. Same for when I go do the front.
So this was my third RockAuto A-1Cardone caliper.... and it's leaking. Returning and buying one from some place else. Tiny leak around the piston seal again.
Have you tried taking it apart to ensure seals are good and its not just sand or piece of material that is causing the leak? I have never rebuilt rears, but numerous fronts. Its pretty easy after you figure out how to take it all apart.
Urstin: (2015-07-13 14:41:35)
Alright homies, we're almost there! I used teflon tape on the bleeder valves to help keep vacuum from pulling air from around the threads. This helped, but didn't solve that problem. The air that was coming out of the bleeders on the now GOOD caliper in the rear, was coming from outside the caliper. I could see this because with a second person, and no vacuum, the fluid poured out of the bleeder like it should.
Pedal felt great, so I decided to take it for a ride! Annnnnd lots of pedal travel and hardly any braking while the car is on. I noticed the hose a the vacuum booster had seen better days, so I'm replacing that tonight with a new check-valve and clamps. Jesus. I think my issue was many parts were failing (even new RockAuto parts), and it created a huge headache.
Usually I'm trying to get the car to go, now all I want to do is just get the damn thing to stop! lolol.
Urstin: (2015-07-14 14:13:17)
The car stops :O Thanks for your help dudez!
V8srfun: (2015-07-18 03:49:06)
My favorite and most effective way to bleed brakes in my opinion can be done with one person. Get yourself a tall bottle like a mouthwash bottle or a 2 liter and fill it 1/4 of the way with fluid. Now make shire your master cyl is full. Now take a piece of vacuum line about 2 feet long and put one end in the bottle and the other on the bleeder making shire the end in the bottle is submerged in fluid. Now open the bleeder 1/2 of a turn and pump the pedal slowly ten times then top the master off and pump ten more times and so on until you have pumped the pedal 40 times at every wheel then go back around and re bleed every wheel with one more session of ten pumps