Forums/Z31P/z31-basics basic-modifications-basic-questions-aka-the-newbie-forum/Welded Diff Ops
Imported from Z31Performance.com Forums{{#if:88sinZ| — original post by 88sinZ}}{{#if:2007-03-06 06:04:16|, posted 2007-03-06 06:04:16}}{{#if:22| · 22 post{{#ifeq:22|1||s}}}}{{#if:/Z31performance_archive/forum/z31-basics/basic-modifications-basic-questions-aka-the-newbie-forum/1798-welded-diff-ops.html|
Local archive: view archived thread on dev.z31library.com}}
88sinZ: (2007-03-06 06:04:16)
Experiences with a welded open 3.9 diff? Or any for the matter.
Opinions?
I've heard about the downfalls in cornering with the rear end acting funny, cornering isn't the goal for me though.. just want solid dig launches. With R200 CLSD getting hard to find, expensive to rebuild at least on my terms with no trans or diff rebuilding experence or tools necessary, and an investment from the dealer for a new CLSD I'm considering this an option.
I'm not too concerned with ride quality.
The work would be sent off to a competent driveline shop along with the PD section of the FSM for safe measure, after I pick one of the many I'll be screening this week.
Bearing and seals will be dealt with afterwards.
Steve88t: (2007-03-06 06:11:46)
Great for drag racing only. Sucks balls for anything else. I don't even think drifting one would be easy to control.
88sinZ: (2007-03-06 15:17:55)
Well im going to stick with a street/strip car.
I'm not really into the auto-xing, track, or drift..
also, what are some attributes to driving on the street with a locker? I'd like to hear of some experences. I figure it'll be a substitute until the rare occasion of a CLSD popping up.
Steve88t: (2007-03-06 16:20:36)
A mechanical locker will pop and jerk around corners. There are a few available for the R200A but hard to come by. If you are unable to find a stock clsd, you can get an arb air locker for it.
Neil86t: (2007-03-06 18:26:13)
I say go for it. If it's just for drag racing then it should be ok. Open diffs are hella cheap. Shipping usually costs more than actually buying one.
Z31SPL: (2007-03-06 19:37:14)
bascially going around intersections or u turns it might hop and make a bit of noise, i wouldnt drive around in the rain with one either, search around on some 240sx or other drifting forums im sure u'll see alot of posts about people thinking about doing the same thing and people who have actually DONE IT will tell them what to expect when you weld your diff.
SteveZ: (2007-03-06 19:45:47)
I ran a welded Diff on my Old Setup,
Driving on the street was no fun at all, Anytime you make a turn you will get alot of noise and some hopping. Parking lots were the worst if you can imagine. But it did the Job on the Dragstrip
My advice; if the car is going to see the street any more than the drive to and from the track dont do it.
Benedict: (2007-03-07 03:42:16)
1988 non-turbo 5 speed manual
Tokico HP spring and shock package,
Prothane poly bushings,
Gary Molitor's polyurethane rear spring seats,,
aluminum differential and crossmember mounts,
adjustable rear camber
poly engine mounts,
poly trans mount,
bypassed clutch dampener,
Exedy racing clutch
OBX short shifter,
welded stock open differential.
I delivered pizza with this setup for 18 months many of which the power steering was bypassed.
keep the PS and it's not much different than stock…and it rocks for drifting, auto-x it's a little too tail happy.
this setup is now on my 86na2t slicktop which I drive daily as well.
88sinZ: (2007-03-07 05:21:24)
Thanks for the replys everyone, interesting finds…
specificly mentions the R200
http://www.automotiveforums.com/t474972-240sx_lsd.html
Benedict: (2007-03-08 04:28:06)
"The only Welded diff related problem I've actually heard of from 240SX owners is the welds breaking, probably because of shitty welds. People will cry and cry about breaking axles and pinions and wearing tires, but they are also the same people that don't run them. Most people that have them acknowledge the driveablity problems and weld it in a way to be able to ignore the technical problems (read: they do it right)"
use a strong/industrial welder.
a buddy of mine used a BS mig that just plugs into the wall. It had no penetration on the gears and the welds broke away leaving him with an open diff and shrapnel in just a few days. Amazingly, the diff is ok. I just re-welded it today with the same welder that did mine almost 2 years ago.
300zxt: (2007-03-08 04:54:43)
Welding the diff is a bit backyard, you want a mini spool diff centre to do it properly.
88sinZ: (2007-03-08 12:28:25)
Never heard of one.. :? Care to give a little more info?
300zxt: (2007-03-08 18:57:33)
It's basically a diff locker, you get the same effect as welding it but it's far less dodgy. The center of the diff is replaced and with held together with the minispool diff centre. It's a poor mans LSD, or in our case when you cant find an LSD but the cons are the same as a welded diff, but it's just a better way to do it.
My understanding of it is that the difference between a fullspool and a minispool is that a mini spool replaces the spider gears inside the carrier whereas a full spool replaces everything. A full spool however costs shit loads of cash, but the stress is then transfered to your axles which is really impractical unless you have some bullshitly strong axles.
In my opinion both are only really suitable for drag cars, or on a street car only good for burnouts and such but driving in the wet? Forget about it! Also your tyres will get absolutely slaughtered with a solid diff center due the reasons mentioned above by others.
Minispools are cheap though, they can be had for a couple of hundred bucks. Alot of guys over here use them, some places will even custom make them to your application.
Edit: I found this which explains it better than I can,
Steve88t: (2007-03-09 13:53:24)
Show me a full or mini spool for an R200. If there was one, I'd already have it for the front of my truck. If you want such an item, you will be doing it custom.
The only commercially available devices I know of are a stock lsd, expensive aftermarket lsd's, arb air locker, and a rare detriot locker that is no longer made.
300zxt: (2007-03-09 17:21:44)
They can be had HERE for cheap, $200-$300… Last I researched it there was a mini spool available which fits s13/s14/s15/r32 R180 or R200 but not mass produced no but a made to order item… Who knows about America, research that yourself lol
84z31: (2007-03-12 23:46:30)
i had one on my toyota. welded it with 7018 welding rod. i melted the spider gears to the case. it worked great. never broke, and i didn't even mind it on the road. it saw more street action then off road. but i didn't mind.
it will wear the tires out a little faster. just rotate them more often.
and when you take a tight corner, your inside tire will skweek a little.
they are pretty easy to drive too. if you can't drive one your a big baby. and you shouldn't even think about putting a locker in.
if you can't handle it in the rain your an idiot. keep your foot off the pedal. i drove mine all the time in snow and rain. never had a problem unless i wanted to.
DMANN: (2007-03-12 23:56:10)
Welded DIFF OPS
Well… I welded mine and it isn't that bad…you will notice the above mentioned issues…I haven't been able to really hammer it {saving up for a DXD clutch}
But, far as those mini spools go WOW that is alot of money for just a little spool…
A couple of hundred bucks…ouch that is just too much…
Not , when I can get ford 8.8 posi for 100 bucks or ford 9" for 200-300 bucks
I would love to stay only nissan but, come on now…
G-E: (2007-03-13 10:04:49)
Re: Welded DIFF OPS
and you'll spend twice that getting a ford rear into the car, come on how exactly?
DMANN: (2007-03-13 20:37:57)
Diff ops
Well, that's the fun of fabricating!!!
88sinZ: (2007-03-13 23:05:36)
I'm NOT going to ever put anything else Ford on my Z, the 18" Bullitts can stay.. 8)
As to not clog the forums up..
1. I'm getting ready to get the front suspension squared away, the Haynes says to use a "light duty oil" in the strut housing.. WTH?! what should I be using? Any suggestions?
2. When installing the poly busings in the front control arms they get hooked up and stick out about 1/8" I've tried a bench clamp but they just wont budge and that little bit is juuust stopping me from sliding them into the cross member, what methods have been used to get these little shits in?
G-E: (2007-03-16 06:44:12)
probably the grease is in there and the sleeve is preventing it from releasing ..... remove the sleeve and compress again....
did you wire wheel or anything the inner surface before attempting the bushings?
88sinZ: (2007-03-16 14:52:06)
Well I sent the front and rear arms to finish pressing them in and the tension rods to get the old bushings pressed out at a local shop thats done a cuple small jobs for me, the people are knowledgable, nice, and prices are fair.
Yes I cleaned up the sleeves.
Also got the diff all cleaned out, GAWD did it smell awful! Nice and caked too, a can and 1/2 of brake cleaner to get it un-gunked.. I picked up some Lucas 80w-90 fluid the Nissan dealer suggested, and ordered the seals. They will be sitting around till I can set up a time with a bud to weld up the diff. :P