Forums/Z31P/z31-basics basic-modifications-basic-questions-aka-the-newbie-forum/Timing Belt Change
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Filipe: (2013-03-21 23:25:28)
Hi All!
I am due for a timing belt change. I can easily bring it to a shop, and have them do it, however part of the reason I bought a Z was because there is so much knowledge out there that I should be able to learn my way through a lot of things that I need to do.
That being said, here is my "plea" for help.
Over the last couple of days, I have done extensive searching about timing belt changes. I've looked here, on ctzcc, and briefly on Zcar, and Z driver. I've found bits and pieces of great information, but haven't found that one SOLID write up that I can follow step by step.
I've also found lists of things to change, lists of things not to change. etc etc.
SO, does anyone know of a complete write up for "dummies" like myself?
I appreciate any and all the help I can get.
les_joey_paul: (2013-03-21 23:46:28)
download the Factory Service Manual
can be found on z31.com I think..
it has everything and anything you'll need to know.
any further questions after reading it, I'll be glad to help you.
i r teh noobz: (2013-03-21 23:50:18)
http://www.xenonz31.com/timingbelt.html
Filipe: (2013-03-21 23:54:21)
yup, got the FSM and the haynes.
I guess question one is how much should I switch while I'm working in there?
Filipe: (2013-03-22 00:17:34)
Do you know where I can get the parts listed there?
DeleriousZ: (2013-03-22 00:26:24)
If you're doing the timing belt change, do everything you possibly can while you're in there.
les_joey_paul: (2013-03-22 00:30:51)
I suggest using courtesyparts.com
I did the timing belt and heads in mine.
new timing belt and tensioner, new coolant temp sensor and subharness, new camshaft seals, new dust seals for timing covers.
if you can pull the crank gear( woodriff key) off then do the front main seal and oil pump seals.
also would be a good time to replace radiator hoses if they are bad,
I think that covers most of the front of the engine stuff,
your belt didn't break, did it?
otherwise you'll be in for much more work.
les_joey_paul: (2013-03-22 00:32:50)
also check your drive belts and replace as necessary.
most things in these ccars are ready to be replaced by now, anyway lol.
zxracer: (2013-03-22 00:49:14)
Just as everyone else has emphasized replace it all while you are there. Once you dig into to it, it will make sense why do it now than later.
Careless: (2013-03-22 00:49:19)
remove crank pulley
remove timing covers
align the timing marks
remove timing belt
remove crank sprocket to access crank seal (you might need to buy a new crank sprocket)
replace crank seal
replace water pump
replace thermostat with OEM
remove cam gears
replace cam seals
replace coolant temperature sensor
put back all the parts
put the timing belt back on
put new accessory belts
put new vacuum lines
put hoses back on
fill with coolant
and put new ignition components if you havent.
you're looking at about 4 to 7 hours of work depending on how much care or how many tools you have and how experienced you are, and you're looking at about 150-300 bucks depending on how many things you want to replace or clean up and paint, etc.
Filipe: (2013-03-22 00:57:52)
Belt did not break. Recently purchased the car, drove it home 1.5 hrs, no problems.
I guess I should have said that the car has 79K, FWIW.
I do believe drive belts have been replaced. Unless the stock ones were green too.
Please allow for some stupid questions:
1) Front bumper coming off is a must, correct?
2) What are "dust seals for timing covers"
3) What is the crank gear? How about the front main seal/oil pump seals? Is that awfully close to the cam shaft pulley?
Hopefully these diagrams help.
http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/84…c5f81.png.html
http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/84…514a6.png.html
Dave-D: (2013-03-22 01:01:58)
THIS (stupid 10 character post limit)
les_joey_paul: (2013-03-22 01:05:48)
front bumper can stay on. when.you remove the timing cover there is a thin seal that's between the cover and back plate.
And you'll have to pull the crank pully off, once it's off you'll see the gear.
i r teh noobz: (2013-03-22 01:13:33)
The gear was a total pain to remove on my 88. I ended up drilling and tapping it for a steering wheel puller. I ordered a new one through NAPA for about 30 bucks.
Filipe: (2013-03-22 01:23:51)
Les_joey_paul thank you. in this link: http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/84…c5f81.png.html is the crankshaft gear you're talking about labeled crankshaft timing pulley?
Drilling and tapping like this guy?
[http://[video=youtube_share;zD3G50oufM4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD3G50oufM4[/video]] [archived image: yt_logo_rgb_light.png]]
Not to sound like an a**, this is a serious question. is this "necessary" for a z with 79k? What's the purpose of replacing the crankshaft timing pulley? Is it known to lose teeth? Or is it solely to replace the front main seal and oil pump seals?
Appreciate it.
DeleriousZ: (2013-03-22 02:54:07)
I know that feel bro.
on the other hand, I was able to slide the gear off with my hands on my other 88. Just depends on if you get lucky or not.
shromy: (2013-03-22 03:02:11)
^This, though it seems most w series I have played with come off by hand, a/b's have never done so for me.
Filipe: (2013-03-22 03:26:45)
Yea, I saw a youtube video of this. I know i've got drops of oil coming from somewhere, just not sure where. I'll check it out when I get home.
Again, the main reason to get the gear off is to change the seal, correct?
les_joey_paul: (2013-03-22 03:29:04)
yes filipe. to change the crankshaft seal and oil pump seal.
if you don't break the gear, then it can be re used.
I wasn't able to pull mine off…So I ended up leaving it…
But it does need to be done eventually, though.
Filipe: (2013-03-22 03:41:11)
Thanks for the clarification. I'll locate the leak, and go from there. Hopefully it's not the one behind the crankshaft timing pulley. But with my luck…
Careless: (2013-03-22 04:02:01)
replace it anyways, or it will saturate your new belt within the 60k mile service schedule, and all your work will be worthless.
Filipe: (2013-03-22 04:16:04)
what do you mean saturate my new belt?
les_joey_paul: (2013-03-22 04:38:10)
oil drops from that crank seal, touching the timing belt and it weakens the belt, i would also think it could allow the belt to slip a few teeth during operation… which wouldn't be good for piston to valve interactions.
Filipe: (2013-03-22 04:42:33)
thanks for the explanation. guess it's something to keep an eye on if I don't do it.
well, this is great information. I'll have to get the car up on stands easter weekend. will I be able to see the belt at all by doing so? I heard the belt is pretty tucked away?
frostvectron: (2013-03-22 04:48:28)
I didn't lift my car at all when I did the t-belt stuff [archived image: smile.png] I worked from the top.
les_joey_paul: (2013-03-22 04:57:06)
well it all can be done from the top, a few things are easier to be done from below, maybe draining coolant and some of the lower section bolts. But it isn't totally necessary.
Filipe: (2013-03-22 05:08:46)
Gotcha. But to even see the belt, before I start dismantling it, is that possible from the top?
Careless: (2013-03-22 08:06:58)
you can do everything from the top. so yes, you can see everything from the top. and don't just "look out" for drops of oil touching your timing belt. what im saying is… replace the crank seal so that all the work your doing isn't a waste of time. if your crank seals is fine before you start, and then it fucks off in 100 miles, it's not something you can "look out for". it's something that will rear its ugly head by coating everything in your engine bay in oil, and potentially screwing up your motor if your belt gets saturated in oil.
a LOT of oil can come through that crank seal. especially on a turbo car.
Filipe: (2013-03-22 12:02:56)
OK. I see what you're saying. What makes it go out? Is it common on a car with 79k? Are the camshafts just as good/bad?
My worry is attempting to change them and doing more harm than good.
Filipe: (2013-03-23 00:41:32)
Next question:
Where's everyone's preferred place to shop? Shipping time is not an issue. I've got 3 weeks before I plan on lifting a wrench.
Careless: (2013-03-23 01:32:15)
The thing that makes the cam seal go out is they get really dry and crusty. All it takes is the little lip to rub the crank the wrong way a couple of times, and they will either start leaking immediately, or they will get beat to shit and try to come out sideways. If you have access to it, try and replace it. I recommend doing the cam seals first because they're up high and you can see how to do it. If you need help removing them and reinstalling them, let me know. I can take pictures of my method for removing them on a spare RB26 head I have in the garage that uses similar seals.
The only thing that you should really get from Nissan is the coolant temperature sensor.
The timing belt and tensioner can be a gates belt, they make a lot of OEM belts.
The waterpump can be any brand, but I prefer NPW, they make more OEM pumps than most others.
The cam and crank seals can be NTN or NTK or SKF, which you can get from FelPro. Nissan does not make the waterpumps, timing belts, or seals. They don't make the Coolant Temp sensor either, but I haven't had luck with aftermarket ones except for Beck/Arnley, but they are the same price as OEM.
Filipe: (2013-04-13 00:25:29)
Alright, so how does this list look? What do I need to add/are there any duplicates that I created just because I don't know the name of the part?
Are there any other parts that I should get as OEM?
Much thanks everyone!
Timing Belt Change Parts
OEM?
Timing Belt
Water pump
Water pump gasket
Thermostat
Thermostat Gasket
SS clamps
Crank seal plate
Cam seals
yes
New crank gear
Cylinder head temperature sensor yes
CHTS Sub-harness
yes
Front Upper Hose
Rear Upper Hose
Lower hose
Coolant Bypass hose
Thermostat hose
Hose from water cock to heater core
Hose from block to water core
Hose from heater core to block
Idler/tension bearing
Tensioner
Tensioner spring
yes
Tensioner washer
Tensioner lock washer
Tensioner stud
yes
TearingRaven: (2013-04-13 15:46:01)
Nice list [archived image: smile.png] Looking good!
Filipe: (2013-04-13 16:51:25)
Does it look like i'm missing anything?
TearingRaven: (2013-04-13 16:56:37)
Nothing else comes to mind, you'll have your work cut out for you. I can do these changes in about three hours.
Guest: (2013-04-13 17:31:26)
3 hours? y so long?
TearingRaven: (2013-04-13 17:44:15)
Because fat haha
Filipe: (2013-04-13 22:44:06)
3 hours?? I'm thinking 8 for this guy…and that's if i'm lucky..
G-E: (2013-04-14 00:07:37)
I do it over the course of 5 hours, and about 1hr of that is cleaning parts, another hour goes to taking breaks, drinking tea while staring at the sky, you know… [archived image: wink.png]
Shuman47: (2013-04-14 00:37:02)
Blah blah blah don't worry about how long it takes you unless you happen to work as a flat rate technician. Take your time and do it right. Don't build it up in your mind to be harder than it really is, because it's not. All you need is patience with stuck bolts/parts and attention to detail when putting everything back together. Grease all your seals, scrape any/all old gasket material off and count your timing belt teeth. 40 between the cam sprocket punches and 43 between the driver's side cam punch and the crank punch. Also be sure not to overtighten the timing belt, it will be noisy if you do.
Filipe: (2013-04-15 07:08:35)
Thanks for the feedback everyone, I should be ordering parts in the coming days.
Filipe: (2013-04-19 01:55:09)
Do you guys have any sort of brand preference? There's so many options.
Careless: (2013-04-19 09:27:13)
1.5 to 2 hours if you've done it before. even less maybe.
4 to 5 hours if you haven't.
16 hours if you forget to buy parts.
72 hours if you forget to buy parts on a weekend.
Filipe: (2013-04-21 04:35:44)
SO the seals from Executive nissan, nissanparts.cc, and courtesyparts.com are not OEM seals?
Careless: (2013-04-21 04:47:18)
That's not what I said. OEM seals are not made by Nissan. If you buy them from nissan, you'll see that they are simply repackaged NTN, NTK, NOK, or SKF seals. The cam and crank seals are not proprietary sizes, so any third-party parts company has access to the same seals that Nissan repackages. In other words, they are a standard size- not a Nissan specific size. but use what you want. don't let me stop you from spending an extra 4 or 5 bucks to get them from Nissan.
Filipe: (2013-04-21 06:51:35)
Thanks for the clarification. I had originally chosen Executive Nissan, but will be going with Rock Auto supplied ones now. Thanks.
wbnethery3: (2013-10-19 05:54:42)
Bumping this thread… did you complete this job? If so, how did it go?
Filipe: (2013-10-22 20:10:17)
Wow! Thanks for reviving this! yes, I did complete the job, it went very well. I also created a "how to":
The Z31 link is broken, so refer to my local z club page: