Forums/Z31P/z31-repairs-forums driveline/Manual Transmission Swap

Imported from Z31Performance.com Forums{{#if:daniel_pearce| — original post by daniel_pearce}}{{#if:2017-10-22 19:47:17|, posted 2017-10-22 19:47:17}}{{#if:18| · 18 post{{#ifeq:18|1||s}}}}{{#if:/Z31performance_archive/forum/z31-repairs-forums/driveline/537550-manual-transmission-swap.html|
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daniel_pearce: (2017-10-22 19:47:17)

I'm getting a list together of all the parts I need for the 5-speed swap into the 84 Turbo. The guide on XenonZcar.com says you need to get the speedometer pinion cable if you have the analog dash. I have the digital dash, and I believe the digital dash uses a speed sensor instead of a speedometer pinion cable. Does the automatic already come with a speed sensor that will be compatible with the 5-speed?

The guide also says that you need the brake pedal assembly while another guide says you only need the brake pedal and not the entire brake pedal assembly. To me it looks like most clutch pedal assemblies come equipped with the brake pedal in addition to the clutch pedal. So if I get a clutch pedal assembly for the Z31, that should already include the brake pedal right?

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Dunkine: (2017-10-23 00:26:54)

Your speed sensor should be by the battery with the speedo cable going to it. If the cable from the trans to speed sensor is different, then you would need the cable for a stick digital dash Z. You should check to see if the speed sensors have the same part # too.

I wish I still had access to my fiche machine, makes looking stuff up like this so much easier. Anyone have an online fiche? I think Zbum used to have one, but I don't think the links work anymore. Might be able to call the dealer and ask them if they would look up the parts for you / interchange.

Are you asking if you need to swap the brake / clutch pedals as an assembly or if you just need the clutch pedal parts?

I would think if someone is selling it used and if it unbolts together, they would sell it together because it's easier, but I would ask them.

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daniel_pearce: (2017-10-23 01:24:46)

{{#if:| wrote:|Quote:}}

Yes, I know. That would be convenient. I have an FSM here, but looking it up on the fiche machine would be a cinch. I can still check the part numbers parts.nissan.usa or my local dealer's parts website to see if the part number are the same.

{{#if:| wrote:|Quote:}}

That's not what I'm asking. My questions are related to the guide on XenonZcar.com. It states you need the clutch pedal assembly and the brake pedal assembly. A Youtube guide says you only need the brake pedal. Why do they tell you that LOL? The picture below shows the clutch pedal, the brake pedal, and the gas pedal as one assembly. Information about the Z31 online is sometimes inaccurate.

Z31 Clutch Pedal Assembly

300ZX_Z31_Brake_Pedal_Assembly.jpg

Good news is that I've already managed to locate a good shift knob, shift, boot and center console trim bezel for the swap.

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Dunkine: (2017-10-23 03:47:51)

Ahh, the brake pedal pad is smaller / angled vs the auto brake pedal, that's why.

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JSM: (2017-10-23 23:56:37)

{{#if:daniel_pearce|daniel_pearce wrote:|Quote:}}

Yes, I know. That would be convenient. I have an FSM here, but looking it up on the fiche machine would be a cinch. I can still check the part numbers parts.nissan.usa or my local dealer's parts website to see if the part number are the same.

That's not what I'm asking. My questions are related to the guide on XenonZcar.com. It states you need the clutch pedal assembly and the brake pedal assembly. A Youtube guide says you only need the brake pedal. Why do they tell you that LOL? The picture below shows the clutch pedal, the brake pedal, and the gas pedal as one assembly. Information about the Z31 online is sometimes inaccurate.

Z31 Clutch Pedal Assembly

300ZX_Z31_Brake_Pedal_Assembly.jpg

Good news is that I've already managed to locate a good shift knob, shift, boot and center console trim bezel for the swap.

Does that pic look like one unit? To me it looks like three separate pieces in the pic.

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Dunkine: (2017-10-24 01:01:05)

Yeah, looks like separate pieces. I went out and took pics of manual vs auto pedals. Looks like you could use the auto pedal and just add the clutch, but I wouldn't. It would be too close together for me.

[archived image: 0XgBL5k.jpg]

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JSM: (2017-10-24 01:48:49)

I've been thinking on this swap myself, to install the pedals in the pic, do you have to pull the dash?

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Dunkine: (2017-10-24 17:33:19)

There's a write up on XenonZcar https://dev.z31library.com/xenonzcar_archive/z31/autotomanualswap.html

No dash removal necessary.

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daniel_pearce: (2017-10-24 17:33:54)

Oh I see now. The parts in the pic I posted look like one unit at first, but they're separate units lying neatly against the wall. That would make good for one of those optical illusion pics.

I don't like the auto brake pedal either. It's too wide, so I'll have to find a manual brake pedal.

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JSM: (2017-10-25 00:44:58)

{{#if:Dunkine|Dunkine wrote:|Quote:}}

There's a write up on XenonZcar https://dev.z31library.com/xenonzcar_archive/z31/autotomanualswap.html

No dash removal necessary.

Thanks, Yeah I read that. I was wondering if you take the pedals apart that are in the pics or just bolt those in? The instructions seemed pretty vague.

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daniel_pearce: (2017-10-27 18:24:33)

That's a good question. From the pic I posted, it looks like they're three separate components that you bolt in minus the gas pedal since you've already got that.

Also, is the clutch master cylinder and hydraulic line the same from 84-89 or will I need to get an 87-89 master cylinder and line if I go with the FS5R30A?

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Dunkine: (2017-10-28 20:04:17)

I have this book marked as an upgrade for the hose, someone posted it, can't remember who. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/e…3erl/overview/

The hardline, clutch cyl, clutch damper, slave cyl, hose from slave to damper should be all the same.

But before you go swapping stuff, decide if you are going to use the Clutch Damper. I am deleting it off both my stick cars at some point cause they can be a PITA, another step in bleeding and on my 87 the bleeder broke off. There's a write up on ZBum's mirrored page http://zbum.suomiz.net/modification.clutch.damper.shtml showing how to use a 280z brake hose to bypass the Clutch Damper. (pictures off zbum's site)

[archived image: 280zx.mod.before.jpg]

[archived image: 280zx.mod.after.jpg]

If the hoses are the same, just different length, you could probably just bend the hardline over. I've also seen a piece to replace the damper for sale somewhere. I was going to make a little piece of hardline up to replace the damper if it will screw into the factory line or see if that 13inch braided line is long enough.

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JSM: (2017-10-29 01:46:07)

Good info. What is it's use for? Does it give different pedal feel without it? Being used to the early S30's, when I read that being there I was like hugh?

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daniel_pearce: (2017-10-30 02:26:16)

{{#if:| wrote:|Quote:}}

I have heard of someone using the 280zx brake hose to bypass the clutch damper before. It's supposed to give a more positive feel to the clutch instead of the sloppy feel. However, I read up on the purpose of the clutch damper and it seems like an important part even though it involves an extra step to bleeding the clutch. It is supposed to reduce vibration in the driveline created from engine oscillation ensuring longevity of driveline components. Therefore, I haven't decided if I am going to use the clutch damper yet or not. Still, this is good information and it should be stickied.

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JSM: (2017-10-30 14:31:13)

{{#if:daniel_pearce|daniel_pearce wrote:|Quote:}}

I have heard of someone using the 280zx brake hose to bypass the clutch damper before. It's supposed to give a more positive feel to the clutch instead of the sloppy feel. However, I read up on the purpose of the clutch damper and it seems like an important part even though it involves an extra step to bleeding the clutch. It is supposed to reduce vibration in the driveline created from engine oscillation ensuring longevity of driveline components. Therefore, I haven't decided if I am going to use the clutch damper yet or not. Still, this is good information and it should be stickied.

That is odd. I'm not sure how that is possible. Dunkine description makes the most sense, at least to me.

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daniel_pearce: (2017-10-30 16:34:02)

Do you think vibration produced by engine oscillation may cause damage to your driveline components over time?. After doing a bit of research, I can see how it could affect driveline components. Prashant Kulkarni, engineering-manager of the Clutch Division at Eaton Corp stated, "All of these engines create different firing pulses in order to operate and it is those pulses that cause oscillations and subsequent vibration." That vibration then moves throughout the entire driveline, “through the clutch, the transmission, down the driveshaft and to the axles.” If vibration gets to be excessive it can break components like synchronizer pins, transmission and U-joint gears, he explains. “It can even [impact] gears down in the axle or any other component that is directly in the torque path of the driveline.”Kulkarni goes onto say, "the damper in the clutch has to be precisely designed, and, in fact, is the most critical part of a clutch."

The stiffness of the clutch damper has an impact on the whole driveline. Kuklarni uses a broomstick and slinky to make his point. If I’m holding a broomstick on one end and someone else is holding it on the other end and I shake my end, the other person will feel every oscillation.” But, with the slinky the other person won't feel the oscillations because the slinky acts like a soft spring.

He quickly adds while a damper isn't as soft as a slinky, "It has to have enough travel designed into it to soften or dampen torsional vibration yet be strong enough to absorb the torque required to power the driveline.”

Keep in mind no one clutch fits all engines. He further explains that you have to find the right cushioning balance. Factors include:The amount of torque from the engine the driveline needs to support The appropriate stiffness/softness of the damper to isolate the vibration energy coming from the engine Determining the correct size damper to accommodate the number of springs needed The amount of friction material needed to maximize wear life.

So, it seems to me that the clutch damper is a critical component of clutches and drivelines to prevent damage to the driveline from the natural resonance created by engine oscillation. You need the damper to cushion the effect of the vibrations in order to prevent damage to your driveline componnents (synchronizer pins, transmission and U-Joint gears among some things.

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Dunkine: (2017-10-30 16:45:53)

I think that's referring the springs in the clutch itself, not to the damper located in the hydraulic line. It may even refer to the center section of the clutch disc. The damper in the hydraulic line has only to do with the motion of the clutch engagement. Once the clutch pedal is released and the disc is in contact with the flywheel, it has no effect on the driveline.

Off the net:

[archived image: fig4_disc2.jpg]

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JSM: (2017-10-31 01:27:31)

Yeah good info Daniel but we're talking about a different peice.