Forums/Z31P/z31-performance-upgrade-forums engine-mechanical-aa/How Texas Ace Swapped a VG30ET to a VG33ET! Complete Writeup
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Texas_Ace: (2009-07-22 02:02:59)
Most (well none of you) know me. This is my latest project car and I figured you might be interested, this site was recommended to me from a guy on youtube. This is how I did this swap.
So here is a summery for my entire 86 Z31 300ZX Turbo VG30ET to VG33et swap. This should also give a good reference for anyone that wants to do this swap and I do think this is a good swap to do. This is based on doing the swap with a VG30et parts engine, doing it without a parts engine is a WHOLE different can of worms and frankly not worth the time or effort or the extra $$$ it would cost IMO. You could use a VG30e as a parts engine as well if you had to, you would have to source the turbo parts of course but that is easy compared with getting all the other little parts you need to make the VG33 work in a 300zx
I will have a parts list at the end of this and a lot of extra pictures I didnât feel a need to post before just so that they are there for others that might want them. These pictures should be up pretty much forever.
First off a link to another site for this swap: http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/337554 READ THIS BEFORE READING THE REST OF THIS THREAD! IT WILL HELP YOU UNDERSTAND THIS THREAD!
Here is the above post in quote form, all credit for the quote goes to âbimrtechâ
Just wanted to put this information all in one spot.
Big Thanks to mtcookson for letting me know before hand some of the differences. I would not have performed this swap without his advice!
I just performed this swap and found a few more. I just want to clarify a few things for others interested in this swap.
From the bottom up.
The VG30 oil pan will bolt to the VG33 block
The a VG30 oil pump will bolt on the vg33 block and is needed if running the vg30âs oil pan as the pick up tube is in a different location from the vg33 pump unless you want to fab. the pickup tube.
The VG30 crank will work in the VG33
The VG30 crank will only work with the VG30 Oil Pump
The VG33 Crank will only work with the VG33 Oil Pump
If you plan on running the VG33 crank in your swap you will have to modify the pickup tube as read above again. The VG30 pick up tube will bolt to the vg33 pump but it will be in the incorrect place. I modified the VG30 tube to work in the vg30 pan with a vg33 pump. I also had to cut some baffling in the pan to make it work.
If running a vg33 oil pump the filter is attached to a extension bolted to the pump. This was in the way on my car. I was able to tap the oil pump with ¼ NPT tap and run fittings to a remote filter housing. If you are stuck with the vg33 crank as I am, this must be done if the filter housing is in the way. You can not run the filter on the side of the block if using this oil pump. I suppose you could if you fabed a loop for the two holes in the side of the oil pump, but if you are going to do this, you might as well run a remote oil filter.
Crank pulleys are not interchangeable.
Water pump is a bit different. VG30 was shorter than the vg33.
I ran the water pump that went with the crank so the belts would line up.
The t-stat housing on the VG30 will not bolt to the vg33 block as there is casting material in the way of the housing. You may be able to grind, I did not try.
The vg33 t-stat housing outlet puts the lower hose connection at an angle, not straight out as the vg30 housing did. This forced me to fab up some creative lower hose connections.
T belts/cam gears/crank gears must be for the crank you are running.
If VG30 crank sprocket you must use vg30 cam gears/ t-belt
If vg33 crank sprocket you must use vg33 cam gears.
The cam gears are interchangeable with the cam
VG33 gears will work on a vg30 cam.
The intakes are interchangeable.
The flywheel from a vg30 will bolt to a vg33 crank.
The cams from a vg30 will work in a vg33 head.
The valve springs from a vg30 will work in a vg33 head.
The transmission from a vg30 will work on a vg33 block.
Mounts are the same also.
The vg30 distributor required some time on the grinder. An angle must be made at the base of the distributor as the clamping bolt did not go straight down as on vg30 heads. On Vg33 heads this bolt enters at an angle.
mtcookson added "On the distributor, there should be plate that bolts to the head. The distributor bolts to that plate. You should be able to remove the plate from one head and put it on the other to go with the distributor you're using. "
Joe
And a good read for any Z31: http://z31.com/faq/turbo.faq.shtml
Link to full build thread of this swap http://www.300zxclub.com/showthread.php?t=156768
Quick back story, found a MINT condition 300zx a few months back that had a blown motor (and he blew it good to, pic later) from running 15+psi on a hot Texas summer without an intercooler and on a bone stock engine in every way.
The rest of the car is MINT, only 60k miles it. So i picked the car up planning to replace the engine and use it as a nice daily driver.
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While looking for engines i found that getting a turbo engine that i would trust was not easy. But it was then suggested that i do a VG33 swap. Looked up what little info there is on it and decided that is the engine for me. They only cost slightly more but they are a lot newer, easier to find and less miles.
The VG33 seems to fit my goals perfectly.
Reliable: Check
Easy to find: Check
Cheap: Check
Will have good power at stock settings: Check
Can get ~250rwhp with by just raising the boost slightly and still be 100% reliable: Check.
Later when i have $$$, i can get 400+hp: Check
So i got a VG33 from a 98 pathfinder with 80k miles on it.
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Engine looks nice and clean and other then a broken coolant neck everything seems to be in tip top shape. The coolant neck from my old engine should fit so i am not worried about that.
So I went outside and was planning on just looking at the old engine and starting to get it ready to pull out. Before i knew it i had the engine on a dolly, so sorry no pics of the pull. Didn't plan on actually doing it, just got carried away.
Here are some with the engine out of the car, there is oil EVERYWHERE from when he blew the block, got my work cut out cleaning that up.
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And here are just 2 of the cracks in the block. The hole actually has a piston and rod sticking right behind it that the picture doesn't show.
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He blew it good, i will give him that.
Ok, started pulling the engine apart and i have to say he REALLY blew this thing in a grade A way! And i have not even got inside yet!
Got the intake pulled off fine:
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Then took off the valve covers, looks like the top end escaped any damage for the most part, at least the cams seemed to which is all i care about.
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Then started on the exhaust manifolds, and found this after pulling off the heat shield:
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From the looks of things he ran REAL lean in the front cylinder (which is also the one that blew) and not so hot on the other side, causing the manifold to crack slightly.
When removing the Turbo oil feed line the block cracked again! and i also noticed that the oil feed line is ruined, i also need to find another one of those.
So I called around on Car-part.com and tracked down a new oil pan as the old one was trashed and a new exhaust manifold. Skipping ahead some but I ended up getting the Turbo oil feed line from Nissan for $75 as I could not find one used.
So at this point I went ahead and started getting parts together to get ready for the swap. I ordered a DXD Stage 1 Clutch from here: http://www.z31parts.com/drivetrain.html Took a week or so to show up but it is a real nice clutch and now that I have used it I have to say it is VERY streetable yet will hold almost 400ft/lb of torque. It is actually almost too streetable for me, I have not had a car with a true street clutch in so long it is odd to drive something with a long engagement point and a soft pedal.
I also ordered up a VG33E complete gasket/seal kit from ebay. I prefer the gaskets on the VG33 vs the VG30, like metal intake/exhaust gaskets and overall better design. The only one that wonât work that I came across is the front main seal, the VG33 seal is bigger then the VG30 (and also why you canât use a VG30 crank pulley with a VG33 engine and thus canât use VG30 accessories with a VG33 engine without swapping cranks like I am doing).
My oil pressure sensor broke when removing the old engine so I had to get a new one, not a big deal.
Ok, so at this point I had most of the parts to get started with the swap over (in my case I got a new crank to swap into the VG33 block but you could use the crank from a VG30 you had). So started pulling the old engine apart.
Holy DANG the PO did an A++++++ job of blowing this thing! I have NEVER seen an engine blow quite like this!
First off i pulled the drivers side valve cover, it actually looks almost new under there. Pulled that cam without any problems.
So then pulled the passanger side, totally different in there, Dirty burnt oil sludge everywhere. And while pulling the cam i noticed that he even managed to break a head bolt!
Then when really looking at the damage i notice that the block has all but split in half!
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You can see the broken head bolt there.
And that crack you see in the block, it starts on 1 side of the engine and oes ALL the way around to the other side! 1 long contentious crack! Never seen that before. It spiders out in a few places as well.
Those with a good eye will also notice that when i tried to remove the crank pulley, instead of coming off, it decided to just snap off. Let this be a warning to all of you, GET A PULLEY PULLER when pulling the crank pulley! You will also need to get some bolts from the hardware store to use with it, take one of the bolts off the crank and take it with you to find the right threads, it is metric.
I then got the oil pan pulled off and he really did a good job blowing this motor! There was more of the bottom end in the oil pan then in the block i think!
Just from the little i looked up in there it looks like he blew almost every piston and the #5 rod got thrown. I know at least 2 pistons were blow on top of the thrown rod. Could not get any good pics up in the engine but here is what i did get:
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On the up side, i have got the old engine stripped of all the parts i need and they all appear to be reusable except the crank which I already had a new one ready to go.
Also started pulling apart the new VG33. Starting on the bottom end and working my way up on this one. I have to say i was impressed with how clean it was under there. Other then some sludge from sitting for who knows how long, all the bores/bearing surfaces look like new! and i could feel some good compression just turning it by hand.
So I went to a local engine builder to pick up all the parts for the crank swap at this point. All new main bearings, New rod bearings, assembly lube, VG30 Water pump, VG30 timing belt, VG30 timing belt tensioner, Black RTV sealent, New spark plugs (get a cap and rotor if yours are worn as well), I already had one but if you donât, get a Haynes manual.
Then set about pulling the bottom end of the VG33 apart. Not that hard, just took my time and used the Haynes manual to do it (if you donât have one, GET IT BEFORE DOING THIS!!!). Pulled off the main bearing cage, I left all the bolts in there holes and carefully set it aside on some cardboard
So I then pulled the old crank out, easy enough. I pulled the rod caps one by one and left the bolts in the holes once again. I then had another piece of cardboard, I then stuck the rod caps into the cardboard with the bolts in the order and direction they came off. This way it would be easy to reinstall them in the exact same place they came off.
Cleaned the new crank REAL good and then came the hardest part. Trying to get the new one in the block with allt he pistons/rods still in it. Ended up using electrical tape around the rob studs so they would not hurt the bearing surfaces and then slowly wiggling them into place. Take your time here, it is possible, I was doing it by myself, if I had an extra set of hands it would have been MUCH easier. Once you get all the rods lined up with the crank and the crank is resting on the main bearings (you did remember to install the lower main bearings first right?) it is pretty easy.
Then before you install the main bearing cage get all the rod caps installed with the new bearings, be sure to clean EVERYTHING, with break cleaner so it is SPOTLESS. VERY VERY VERY important. Once you have all the rods installed spin it a few times to make sure they are on right with the nuts hand tight. Then torque it down to specs (use the Haynes manual).
Now install the main bearing cage and torque to spec. And there you have it, the crank install is done and the hardest part of the swap! Took me about 4 hours to do by myself and in 105 degree heat.
I ended the night getting the rear main seal installed (VG30 and 33 the same). And the oil pump installed (oil pump bolts right up, though the gasket is a little different the VG33 gasket still works fine). The front main seal IS different between the 33 and 30 so i had to reuse my 30 seal. It looks in good condition though.
Then got a good bead of RTV and bolted the oil pan on. Let that dry overnight and will get out there and work on it some more today, got my clutch in as well.
So the bottom end is done, now for the top end and external stuff.
Here are some pics of the VG33 at during this:
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I then got out there and finished up the top end. Got the cams swapped out and all the top end seals/gaskets. So far everything is bolting right up without any problems. Use the hyanes manual for the cams, it is quite easy to do.
So that takes care of all the internals, just the external stuff now. So hard part is done!
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At this point I then started swapping over all the external parts, quite easy when you have a parts engine, no idea how you would do it without one for a reasonable price. Just took my time and bolted everything to the same holes on the new engine.
I got the clutch/tranny installed fine and started with the rest of the external stuff. When i got to the oil filter I found I needed a few more parts.
On the old engine the oil filter threading thing is right here:
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The new one has all the same holes but doesn't have the threaded bolt thingy to screw the oil filter onto.
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So I had to order the threaded oil stud and relief valve from Nissan, not a big deal just a part you will need. Be sure to use RED loctite when installing the stud into the new block.
Now I got to the intake (make sure you swap over the T-stat housing before doing the intake as you canât get to it after the intake is installed). I just took the complete lower/upper intake from the VG30 and moved it to the VG33, this way I didnât have to mess with the injectors or anything. Bolted right on.
i did run into the first non-bolt on problem though. Of all things it is the exahust manifold. The VG33 uses larger studs then the VG30. The turbo manifold actually fits fine on the front 2 cyclinders on each side but for some reason the back set of stud holes on each side is slightly too small.
So going to have to find the right drill bit and make them bigger. Not a big deal but does need to be done. I just got a 1/2â drill bit and drilled out the back holes. After this it fit fine over the studs.
The Nuts on the VG33 had a âlipâ on them though which makes installing the manifolds interesting. You have to âwalkâ the nuts on so that the lip sits in this recess on the manifold
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Then walk all the nuts on together, those 2 middle nuts on the turbo side were the only problems, all the rest went on easy. It does bolt down fine though, just have to take your time.
Another note, that site that was linked to earlier says that the VG30 t-stat housing won't work in the VG33, this is not the case, mine bolted right up no problem.
I am planning on leaving the intake plenium off till i get the engine in the car for the simple reason of it being easier to hook up all the eletrical connections with it off.
Otherwise here it is ready to install:
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Got out there today and started getting the engine put back in the car.
Washed the engine off as good as it would get, got all the built up oil off but the oil stains are there to stay it looks like. A lot better then before though.
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Then started installing the engine. Got it in the car easy, then spent 2 hours just trying to get the stinking oil pan past the steering rack. Then for no reason it just slip past the rack and i made sure it didn't come back up. Once i got it past it dropped right into place.
Bolted everything down and started on the wiring.
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Ended the night with pretty much everything under the car hooked back up and ready to go and most of the stuff up top as well.
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Nothing special to report about the install, everything went in as it should and bolted up as it should.
i am going to finish getting the last stuff hooked up, check everything 3 times over and then get some oil, filter, plugs coolant and all that jazz. Then get ready for the first start.
So I then got out there, finished buttoning everything up and checked it all out. Everything looked good and tried starting it, and it started right up! Timing was way off though. So corrected that and the next day took this video of starting it up and actually letting it idle.
[http://[video=youtube_share;3u_UTDIs1uA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u_UTDIs1uA[/video]] [archived image: yt_logo_rgb_light.png]]
After it idled for a little bit I saw some oil on the ground, long story short I had installed the drivers side cam seal too far into the bore and it leaked. Replaced that and this time installed it flush with the surface and it was fine. I also didnât tourqe down the oil pump enough the first time and it had a small leak there as well. Careful with it though, you DO NOT want to strip those bolts.
And that is where it sits now, still breaking it in and no problems yet. Will put it on the dyno as soon as it is broken in and report back!
And there you go, that is my story of the VG30et to VG33et swap in my 300zx.
Link to full thread: http://www.300zxclub.com/showthread.php?t=156768
Here are some finished pictures after the first test drive, cars needs a bath bad but you get the idea:
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Now for that parts list, this is all the parts I can remember I needed to buy had my parts engine been in perfect condition, you will obiously have to adjust the list to whatever you are using for a parts engine. For example I had to buy a LOT of odd ball parts due to my engine being blown so good (which ended up costing a LOT more then the engine which is why I say doing this without a parts engine at all is not smart).
But here is the base Parts list for a VG30 to VG33 swap with a VG30 parts engine:
Clutch (makes sense, you will have more power then a stock clutch can handle at this point and much better off doing it while you have easy acsess
Gasket kit (get a VG33 gasket kit, I got mine from ebay)
Front main seal for a VG30 (the VG33 front main seal wonât fit the VG30 crank)
Pulley puller (you can rent this as well but one way or the other you need acsess to one of these)
Main bearings (you are changing the cranks, of course you need this)
Rod bearings (ditto above)
assembly lube (You need to make sure you lube ALL metal on metal surfaces on the engine when putting it back together, use hyanes manual)
VG30 Water pump (must use a VG30 water pump with a VG30 crank)
VG30 timing belt (must use a timing belt for a VG30 with a VG30 crank, PS, the belts changed in the 90âs, so make sure you get a belt that is the same year as your parts engine)
VG30 timing belt tensioner (need to replace this while in there and it also has to match the crank)
Black RTV sealent, (need this for various places, the oil pan for one thing)
New spark plugs: NGK Part # 6953 More Info {V-Power Plug #BKR5E11} Plugs - SOHC {.039 gap} 2.00 a piece on rockauto.com. (well this is common sense, why use old plugs when they only cost $2?)
Oil filter stud (will need this to install an oil filter, slightly important)
Oil filter Relief valve (ditto above)
And that is all I can think of that you HAVE to have for this swap with a perfect condition VG30ET parts engine.
Now for costs, this is all based on having a good VG30ET parts engine that you can use all parts off of, prices will obviously go up for any parts you canât reuse like it did with mine.
Engine: $500 - $1000 depending on a lot of factors
Clutch $250
Gasket kit $75
Front main seal for VG30 $10
Pulley puller $20
Main bearings $40
Rod bearings $50
assembly lube $5
VG30 Water pump $50
VG30 timing belt $40
VG30 timing belt tensioner $30
Black RTV sealent, $5
New spark plugs: $15
Oil filter stud $8
Oil filter Relief valve $5
2 changes of oil $20
2 Oil filters $10
Transmission fluid $20
Anti-freeze $15
Mics other things I am not thinking of $100
So best case the total cost for this swap will be about $1250 - $1750
But the simple fact is things never go to plan, so real best case number I would put more in the $1500 - $2000 range. Then you have to add anything else you will need on top of the above part to that number.
Example, without even adding every little item I have spent over $3000 on my swap to do it right but that included a lot of other stuff non-engine related. So make sure you have the funds to finish what you start! But In the big picture it is a pretty cheap swap, for $1500 to get a nice low mileage engine with more power then stock and just as much reliability is a good deal IMO. Considering that when looking for a stock VG30ET engine they were going for $750 - $1250 for JUST the engine. Parts engines were going a LOT cheaper though FYI.
I will be going to the dyno after it is broken in and see what it can do and report back. So far though just driving it easy I can say it is a TOURQE monster! With just 1/3 throttle in 5th at 50mph it wants to jump up and go. Breaking this in is going to be hard.
And there you have it, my VG33et swap.if there is anything else you would like to know or for me to add just let me know.
Here are a ton of extra pictures I had of the VG30 engine showing where everything went before I took it apart to make putting the new one back together easier:
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[http://[video=youtube_share;3u_UTDIs1uA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u_UTDIs1uA[/video]] [archived image: yt_logo_rgb_light.png]]
New 2 Z: (2009-07-22 02:21:47)
Nice to see you over here ace. glad i could help as much as i could with the swap and glad to hear she runs.
Texas_Ace: (2009-07-22 02:27:19)
Yep, runs quite nice too. It is going to be so hard to break this in without getting on it!
New 2 Z: (2009-07-22 02:31:29)
[quote]Texas_Ace wrote:
Nice to see you over here ace. glad i could help as much as i could with the swap and glad to hear she runs.
Yep, runs quite nice too. It is going to be so hard to break this in without getting on it![/quote:2vrtv586]
for the clutch stop and go traffic, this is what I've been told works the best.
NIVO: (2009-07-22 02:33:15)
great post
Chrisw_2003: (2009-07-22 02:34:12)
wow, that block was toast >< good info! welcome to the club and it was I who posted about this place [archived image: smile.png] glad to see you came over [archived image: smile.png] and good luck on your build [archived image: smile.png] oh later on you might want to swap the pathy intake onto the engine.
vagabond: (2009-07-22 02:52:14)
Bravo Sir. Wish I had picked up a VG33 when my last engine went, but the one I got was only ten bucks.
The next engine though, will benefit greatly from this post! Thanks!
SATAN: (2009-07-22 03:04:48)
I have NEVER seen a VG30 come apart like that!!!! Are you sure it didn't just throw a rod really really bad? Do you have any pics of the fried piston/pistons perhaps???
Very good write up though. Welcome to z31performance.com!
Texas_Ace: (2009-07-22 03:12:00)
I have never seen any engine come apart quite like that. It looks MUCH worse in person.
Didn't ever actually pull the internals out of the block as i was too busy with the other engine but i might pull it apart before junking it just for kicks and giggles.
Glad you like the writeup!
Careless: (2009-07-22 03:16:58)
very informative post. glad you came here to share. i should have gotten the z31 crank out of my engine earlier and used all that stuff, but too late.
I hope the nitriding i did was worth the extra hardness.
and that VG30 came apart like a casting block. LOL
Domdogg123: (2009-07-22 16:11:03)
Great post, love the pics and the VG33 info.
zachary.ard: (2009-07-22 17:38:25)
Epic post good sir! Welcome to Z31P, and thanks especially since I'll be doing this same swap in the very near future.
Matt89: (2009-07-22 18:16:11)
Nice work!!!
Texas_Ace: (2009-07-22 18:59:44)
The way i look at it is this, if you are doing this swap, there is a 90% chance you have a VG30 of some kind already. And no matter what you have to remove the VG33 crank wether you machine it or swap it. So i see no reason to go to all the extra work of making the VG33 work vs just swapping cranks.
But it can be done and should work fine, just a lot of extra work and $$.
By "nitriding" I assume you mean some form of cryo freezing? that should indeed help you out if you are going for the big numbers. It REALLY does add a LOT of streangth. Years ago when this was new a friend of mine and me sent in some disposable razors to be frozen, those things were no longer disposable, they lasted longer then the big $$$ razors you can get (this was a common example they were using back then to show it works BTW) they also used panty hose, supposedly it lasted 5x longer after being frozen. Never tried that one though…lol
Andrew84zx: (2009-07-22 22:16:33)
where in texas are you
Texas_Ace: (2009-07-23 00:29:29)
I am in DFW.
SATAN: (2009-07-23 01:37:24)
[quote]Texas_Ace wrote:
very informative post. glad you came here to share. i should have gotten the z31 crank out of my engine earlier and used all that stuff, but too late.
I hope the nitriding i did was worth the extra hardness.
and that VG30 came apart like a casting block. LOL
The way i look at it is this, if you are doing this swap, there is a 90% chance you have a VG30 of some kind already. And no matter what you have to remove the VG33 crank wether you machine it or swap it. So i see no reason to go to all the extra work of making the VG33 work vs just swapping cranks.
But it can be done and should work fine, just a lot of extra work and $$.
By "nitriding" I assume you mean some form of cryo freezing? that should indeed help you out if you are going for the big numbers. It REALLY does add a LOT of streangth. Years ago when this was new a friend of mine and me sent in some disposable razors to be frozen, those things were no longer disposable, they lasted longer then the big $$$ razors you can get (this was a common example they were using back then to show it works BTW) they also used panty hose, supposedly it lasted 5x longer after being frozen. Never tried that one though…lol
The nitride he is talking about is from him having to remove too much material from the crank. This will create a soft spot where bearings sit causing extremely fast wear. In order to make it suitable to be a journal of some kind again, you have to have re nitride it.
"Nitriding is a chemical hardening process in which the part is heated in a furnace, the oxygen is vacuumed out, and nitrogen is introduced which penetrates the entire surface. The depth of hardness is dependent upon the time the crankshaft is exposed to the gas. Typically, a nitrided crankshaft will have a hardness depth of about .010 - .030. Nitriding is a low heat process compared to Tuftriding, but it shares the advantage of avoiding the introduction of localized stress zones as in induction hardening."
Texas_Ace: (2009-07-23 02:00:53)
[quote]SATAN wrote: [quote=Texas_Ace]
very informative post. glad you came here to share. i should have gotten the z31 crank out of my engine earlier and used all that stuff, but too late.
I hope the nitriding i did was worth the extra hardness.
and that VG30 came apart like a casting block. LOL
The way i look at it is this, if you are doing this swap, there is a 90% chance you have a VG30 of some kind already. And no matter what you have to remove the VG33 crank wether you machine it or swap it. So i see no reason to go to all the extra work of making the VG33 work vs just swapping cranks.
But it can be done and should work fine, just a lot of extra work and $$.
By "nitriding" I assume you mean some form of cryo freezing? that should indeed help you out if you are going for the big numbers. It REALLY does add a LOT of streangth. Years ago when this was new a friend of mine and me sent in some disposable razors to be frozen, those things were no longer disposable, they lasted longer then the big $$$ razors you can get (this was a common example they were using back then to show it works BTW) they also used panty hose, supposedly it lasted 5x longer after being frozen. Never tried that one though…lol
The nitride he is talking about is from him having to remove too much material from the crank. This will create a soft spot where bearings sit causing extremely fast wear. In order to make it suitable to be a journal of some kind again, you have to have re nitride it.
"Nitriding is a chemical hardening process in which the part is heated in a furnace, the oxygen is vacuumed out, and nitrogen is introduced which penetrates the entire surface. The depth of hardness is dependent upon the time the crankshaft is exposed to the gas. Typically, a nitrided crankshaft will have a hardness depth of about .010 - .030. Nitriding is a low heat process compared to Tuftriding, but it shares the advantage of avoiding the introduction of localized stress zones as in induction hardening."
Ah, i see. I have heard of the process just never really heard of it being used.
enjoyrth: (2009-07-23 03:33:24)
Nice post, especially for a newbie! I remember doing this swap a few years ago and it would have been nice to have a post like this around. I had to PM around to get the info I needed :lol:
xenonxiii: (2009-07-23 03:49:10)
This has been added to Xenonz31.com as well as the VG33 info. Thank you to Texas_Ace and 88sinZ for providing the Information.
Texas_Ace: (2009-07-23 04:50:44)
Well i am only a newbie in the world of z-cars. I have had a number of project cars before this but thanks, i am very happy with the results.
Only problem is i went so far over budget i might have to sell the car if buissness doesn't pick up :-(
Texas_Ace: (2009-07-23 04:51:03)
Glad i could help!
KENLUDE97: (2009-07-23 13:33:18)
Are the pics not working for anyone else?
Texas_Ace: (2009-07-23 16:34:41)
Work fine for me, go back to the page and press crtl+F5, see if they load then.
KENLUDE97: (2009-07-23 16:57:44)
Ahhh the firewall here at work flags the site as "internet auctions" That is why i can not see them. I will have to look when i get home.
Axel kain: (2009-07-24 00:40:43)
I was wondering how long it would take to wind up here!
Texas_Ace: (2009-07-24 01:27:33)
LOL, yeah after i posted it on Youtube i got a ton of PM's asking questions and telling me to put the write up on this or that site.
Thanks again for all the help you gave me during this and are giving me working out other bugs BTW!
SATAN: (2009-07-24 02:28:32)
[quote]Texas_Ace wrote:
Nice post, especially for a newbie! I remember doing this swap a few years ago and it would have been nice to have a post like this around. I had to PM around to get the info I needed :lol:
Well i am only a newbie in the world of z-cars. I have had a number of project cars before this but thanks, i am very happy with the results.
Only problem is i went so far over budget i might have to sell the car if buissness doesn't pick up :-(
Don't do it… It is one of those things that you will regret doing for a long time. Tough it out man.
Texas_Ace: (2009-07-24 02:56:23)
[quote]SATAN wrote: [quote=Texas_Ace]
Nice post, especially for a newbie! I remember doing this swap a few years ago and it would have been nice to have a post like this around. I had to PM around to get the info I needed :lol:
Well i am only a newbie in the world of z-cars. I have had a number of project cars before this but thanks, i am very happy with the results.
Only problem is i went so far over budget i might have to sell the car if buissness doesn't pick up :-(
Don't do it… It is one of those things that you will regret doing for a long time. Tough it out man.
Oh, i really don't want to but the simple fact is i prefer little things like, eletricity, water, a house, you know little things like that, more then a even this car lol.
Unless sales pick up i will be forced to sell it weather i want to or not. Lets hope they pick up!
Axel kain: (2009-07-24 03:36:23)
glad I could help ya out tho! hope things pick up for you!
Texas_Ace: (2009-07-24 03:52:56)
Me too, i got the AC working today so that is nice. Also got it cleaned up and a few little things taken care of.
Last big thing to take care of is the Exahust.
Texas_Ace: (2009-07-26 23:32:59)
Ok, today got out there and took the headlight switch apart. Bent those prongs around a little and now the headlights work great! And from all my testing that fixes the last thing that didn't work on the car!
I went by the car wash and washed it down nice and good, i have to say i am VERY impressed with how clean this car is! All i did was wash it off and then wipe down the interior with water and a rag and this is the results, not even a coat of wax.
So only things left to make this car 100% is the exahust, Radio, an ash tray, and black rear carpet (if anyone has any of these parts please let me know, looking for a parts car to steal some parts off of)
Too bad it looks like i am going to have to sell it :-( :-( How much would ya'll value the car at with the above things fixed BTW?
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1SIKZ31: (2009-08-01 00:01:01)
Car looks Great!
Good luck with the sale!
Texas_Ace: (2009-08-01 01:56:53)
Was driving it today, finally have enough miles on it to actually try giving it a little go pedel (still don't want to rev it past 4k for now though until it is borken in a little more).
I have to say this thing really has some get up and go. for a street car i have to say that even with the conservitive timing (~14 degrees) and WG boost, it is a real hoot to drive. It is also SO tame and stock feeling. Yet it really can get up and go.
Butt dyno says at least ~200 RWHP like it sits. It can make some nice purrty 11's on the street…;-)
I am REALLY going to hate selling this thing, i sure hope buissnes picks up and this is a mute point!
NissanEgg: (2009-08-01 02:58:06)
Your car is identical to mine with the excepction of the mudflaps. Did you swap in a black carpet from another car? Because mine has a dark gray/charcoal colored carpet. How many miles does your's have? Mine has 90k miles.
Texas_Ace: (2009-08-01 03:19:12)
I have not got the rear carpet replaced yet. Plan to get a new rear carpet from http://www.stockinteriors.com/. The PO said that he made a mess in the back and had to toss the factory carpet and could only find the blue that is back there now to replace it.
The way you see the car is how it came to me, only thing i did other then the swap and some minor fixes was clean it.
This car has 60k miles on it, darn good condition too.
KENLUDE97: (2009-08-04 14:19:12)
I don't recall exactly the condition of my car that i got my motor out of… But i think that everything is in nice shape. It was a Black 1988. It was wrecked and has been in a garage ever since, but when wrecked all the glass was intact, so the carpet is dry.
Ill ask the owner for a price and condition.
Later
Ken 8)
Texas_Ace: (2009-08-04 16:15:37)
That would be great, if the inside is in good condition there are a few other little things i could use as well.
KENLUDE97: (2009-08-04 16:42:21)
$50 for the carpet, and is pretty sure its in good condition, checking tonight.
Exhaust was shot (likely NY winters)
Aftermarket sterio in the car, unsure of bezel?
Has Ash tray… Will have to get price for you.
Let me know of any other parts that you are looking for.
Genya: (2009-08-08 03:32:31)
No good information to add, but i did want to thank you for the invaluable information.
Careless: (2009-08-14 06:31:39)
My VG33 is almost completely assembled.
Here's how she sits as of 2 hours ago
The Quest balancer has a 3 rib rear pulley section so it will work with the stock Z31 water pump and pulley, as well as the alternator.
More pics to come.
Texas_Ace: (2009-08-14 14:53:43)
Great! Yours is so purrty! What kind of paint did you use? i have never had luck with engine paint so i don't even try anymore.
Glad to hear yours is coming along as well. Be interseting to see how yours turns out. 2 differnt ways to the same end, i still think my way is better lol. :nanan?re
Have put a few miles on mine but got pulled over the other day for it not being inspected (still don't have an exahust, going to bite the bullet and get one made next week). As soon as i get a few more miles on it i am going ot go by the dyno, already talked to the guy and he agreed to trade of a wireless keyboard i have laying around for some dyno time ;-)
I do have a question, i heard somthing about nissan replacing the injectors, some kind of recall. Is that still going on? Might as well get new injectors before i try to make some power, can't hurt.
Careless: (2009-08-14 22:11:52)
I agree, how you've done it is definitly better, and it's how I would have like to do it, now that I found the oil pump for cheap and all that… but I didn't have the time to pull the Z31 motor, so…
As for the paint… I do impress people with my painting skills out of a spray can sometimes. I have a different approach. Depending on the shape of the parts, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. But regardless, I always get it to come out super shiney.
I used Duplicolor engine enamel for the gold parts (they look slightly vibrant, but I promise they're more subdued and more like the electromotive gold used on the GTP ZX Turbo engines and Infiniti M30 engines).
I spray really thick coats until you can see the mist turn into a sheen. I don't spray from like 20 inches away and mist it until it speckles the entire part over and over… all you'll get doing that is speckling of the paint and it will end up flat. Every time I spray until it levels itself out into a glossy finish, I stop and let it dry. Then I do the same with the clear.
The clear is weird. It's actually white when it's applied in excess… but if you can apply it in excess and not have it run, and it turns the part white, when it dries it will look like GLASS.
Racinjitter saw my valve covers last year. asked me what I painted them with. LOL. They've since been repainted, due to me having to take off the intake manifold a gazillion times and getting frustrated.
One thing I will note though, is that using the engine clear creates a "soft" layer on the paint. Easily scratched, and easily stained. But at that point, you can use a scotch brite pad to break it down to a flat version of whatever colour is underneath, and then respray if you please.
More pics tonight when I get it 99% assembled (if I get that far).
Texas_Ace: (2009-08-15 02:33:51)
Can't wait to see the pics and see how it runs!
I got out there and install the downpipe today, got 2 studs installed fine but one of them simply will not thread. Anyone got any ideas on how to get a bolt in there?, tried cleaning the threads with a tap, no luck.
Should get the exahust early next week and then a few more miles till dyno time!
SATAN: (2009-08-15 03:25:40)
I have found the problem in this entire thread…
MR2. That is what you need to be selling…
Texas_Ace: (2009-08-15 03:53:44)
LOL, yeah that crosse my mind for a second as well, but only a second.
I use the MR2 as a daily driver track car, frankly the 300zx handles like a boat compared to the MR2. I compete agienst Z06 vettes and the MR2 does me proud.
If i was to sell the MR2 i would not have a car to track, plus i finally almost have the MR2 dialed in so i really like it on the track.
I will say the 300zx is much better to just cruise in or daily drive but not so great on a track.
Careless: (2009-08-15 08:07:54)
the studs could have been pulled out completely… there are certain things you can look for in the "HELP!" section of your auto parts store that allow you to make use of a damaged stud or hole for exhausts.
Texas_Ace: (2009-08-15 20:05:09)
Well bit the bullet today and got the exahust made, another $250 out the door.
But it was worth it! it now purrs like a kitten! nice and quite.
I can feel a little power loss, it is 2.5 with a cat and quite muffler, lets just say there is a LOT of room for improvment power wise but for a cruiser this is great nice and quite with just enough noise on the top end to make it sound good.
I would say i am down about ~20hp, but with the cops around here it is worth it to have an ultra quite car that i can play with and not worring about calling every cop within a miles attention.
So going to get it inspected then drive it a bit morebefore getting it on the dyno and adding a boost controller. Hopfully dyno will coem in the next week or 2.
XiOus271: (2009-08-16 02:44:19)
[quote]Texas_Ace wrote:
I have found the problem in this entire thread…
MR2. That is what you need to be selling…
LOL, yeah that crosse my mind for a second as well, but only a second.
I use the MR2 as a daily driver track car, frankly the 300zx handles like a boat compared to the MR2. I compete agienst Z06 vettes and the MR2 does me proud.
If i was to sell the MR2 i would not have a car to track, plus i finally almost have the MR2 dialed in so i really like it on the track.
I will say the 300zx is much better to just cruise in or daily drive but not so great on a track.
That is exactly what I do as well. I love driving my Z, I love the engine (I swear I screamed TORQUE one day when I hadn't driven it in a few months), but the Z has been sitting since end of 2007 and I've been daily driving my MR2. The MR2 handles better (maybe my Z's new suspension will narrow the gap), I can drive the hell out of it with AC on and still get 30+ mpg, but I do have to settle for less power in the MR2… I love both my cars though and could not see myself being able to pick between either.
Texas_Ace: (2009-08-16 02:56:39)
[quote]XiOus271 wrote: [quote=Texas_Ace]
I have found the problem in this entire thread…
MR2. That is what you need to be selling…
LOL, yeah that crosse my mind for a second as well, but only a second.
I use the MR2 as a daily driver track car, frankly the 300zx handles like a boat compared to the MR2. I compete agienst Z06 vettes and the MR2 does me proud.
If i was to sell the MR2 i would not have a car to track, plus i finally almost have the MR2 dialed in so i really like it on the track.
I will say the 300zx is much better to just cruise in or daily drive but not so great on a track.
That is exactly what I do as well. I love driving my Z, I love the engine (I swear I screamed TORQUE one day when I hadn't driven it in a few months), but the Z has been sitting since end of 2007 and I've been daily driving my MR2. The MR2 handles better (maybe my Z's new suspension will narrow the gap), I can drive the hell out of it with AC on and still get 30+ mpg, but I do have to settle for less power in the MR2… I love both my cars though and could not see myself being able to pick between either.
Yep, they are both great cars but for my needs the MR2 is better.
You have more power in the Z then the MR2? NA MR2? Majorly modded Z? I know that bone stock My MR2 turbo was about as fast as this swap (had about 200rwhp, but weighs 2700lb) with minor bolt on's though the MR2 eats the 300 alive once you get past 4k rpm. Under that and the 300 has it, which is why as a cruiser it is nice.
The MR2 now has about 325rwhp (will know more monday or turesday when i dyno it) and lets just say that a race would not be fair after about 15mph.
Hope to dyno the Z in a week or 2, got to replace the plug wires, new plugs, oil change, fule filter, fix a broken hose that is a big boost leak and a few other things first.
XiOus271: (2009-08-16 03:01:59)
Haha yeah, bone stock MR2 NA. Well… I advanced the timing but that doesnt add up to anything. I'd love to do a 3SGE swap, but it's my daily and I cannot afford to have much downtime. I really want to modify my MR2, mostly suspension… but if I start, there will be no stopping.
Texas_Ace: (2009-08-16 03:10:27)
[quote]XiOus271 wrote:
Yep, they are both great cars but for my needs the MR2 is better.
You have more power in the Z then the MR2? NA MR2? Majorly modded Z? I know that bone stock My MR2 turbo was about as fast as this swap (had about 200rwhp, but weighs 2700lb) with minor bolt on's though the MR2 eats the 300 alive once you get past 4k rpm. Under that and the 300 has it, which is why as a cruiser it is nice.
The MR2 now has about 325rwhp (will know more monday or turesday when i dyno it) and lets just say that a race would not be fair after about 15mph.
Hope to dyno the Z in a week or 2, got to replace the plug wires, new plugs, oil change, fule filter, fix a broken hose that is a big boost leak and a few other things first.
Haha yeah, bone stock MR2 NA. Well… I advanced the timing but that doesnt add up to anything. I'd love to do a 3SGE swap, but it's my daily and I cannot afford to have much downtime. I really want to modify my MR2, mostly suspension… but if I start, there will be no stopping.
LOL, yeah like most cars it is impossible to stop once you start.
Only thing you would want to mod would be to swap in a 3sgTe, the turbo motors are great, lots of power and real strong. Thats what i am running with 325rwhp now and plan for 400rwhp once I get cams and a stand alone. A guy just made 475rwhp on a bone stock JDM motor with bolt on's.
XiOus271: (2009-08-16 03:12:41)
[quote]Texas_Ace wrote: [quote=XiOus271]
Yep, they are both great cars but for my needs the MR2 is better.
You have more power in the Z then the MR2? NA MR2? Majorly modded Z? I know that bone stock My MR2 turbo was about as fast as this swap (had about 200rwhp, but weighs 2700lb) with minor bolt on's though the MR2 eats the 300 alive once you get past 4k rpm. Under that and the 300 has it, which is why as a cruiser it is nice.
The MR2 now has about 325rwhp (will know more monday or turesday when i dyno it) and lets just say that a race would not be fair after about 15mph.
Hope to dyno the Z in a week or 2, got to replace the plug wires, new plugs, oil change, fule filter, fix a broken hose that is a big boost leak and a few other things first.
Haha yeah, bone stock MR2 NA. Well… I advanced the timing but that doesnt add up to anything. I'd love to do a 3SGE swap, but it's my daily and I cannot afford to have much downtime. I really want to modify my MR2, mostly suspension… but if I start, there will be no stopping.
LOL, yeah like most cars it is impossible to stop once you start.
Only thing you would want to mod would be to swap in a 3sgTe, the turbo motors are great, lots of power and real strong. Thats what i am running with 325rwhp now and plan for 400rwhp once I get cams and a stand alone. A guy just made 475rwhp on a bone stock JDM motor with bolt on's.[/quote[archived image: redface.png]achnufe]
I've thought about the GTE, but some SCCA club racing classes dont allow turbos, so thats one of my hangups. It would allow for the GE… but I could only imagine what a MR2 turbo is like :twisted:
Texas_Ace: (2009-08-16 04:05:10)
Yeah, if you are trying to fit in a class it is hard, i just run open class most of the time so i don't have to worry about it.
There is also the beams you can swap but it costs more. Basically a Vtec toyota.
Texas_Ace: (2009-11-11 19:06:13)
Well just figured i would give a quick update.
Car now has ~1500 miles on it and it is still running strong and better then ever since i found my boost leak.
I did manage to take it to the track this last weekend but only got 1 pass done before i managed to blow the transmission in my OTHER car i was racing that day and had to call it quits.
On the shakedown pass it ran a 9.6 @ 79 in the 1/8th spinning HARD 1st and 2nd also on stock boost. That is about a 14 in the 1/4. This puts it right in line with my HP estmates of 240 - 250hp acroding to some drag calculators.
On a clean pass at stock boost i could see it making a 9.0 flat pass and turning the boost up i could see a high 8 easy with some good tires. that would be about a low-mid 13 in the 1/4.
Car is also for sale now for anyone interested: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18985
vagabond: (2009-11-11 19:16:15)
That's too bad about the sale. I really do appreciate the post and your thread in general. I will be utilizing your build for my own VG33 upgrade. Thanks a lot, and GL with the sale.
Texas_Ace: (2009-11-11 19:26:35)
Yeah, i really don't want to sell it, it is SO nice but now with me needing a new tranny for the MR2 and some other expenses that have come up i really don't have a choice. Plus if i sell it it should give me just enough left over so that i can get my LSx swap RX7 done and running.
Plus i have yet to keep a car for more then 6 months after it is running, why beak that record now? lol
I always got to have somthing new to work on, i get a car work on it, get it running real nice and when there is nothing left to do I find another car and start working on it. But being poor like i am i have to sell the first car to pay for the second one. Sucks but keeps things interesting.
If i was to keep this car i know it is a matter of months maybe weeks before i would start adding more stuff to it and making big power. This car is in such good condition i just don't want to see that happen, even by me.
Texas_Ace: (2009-11-14 18:39:49)
Ok, i made a video of the car and a 1st - 4th gear pull if anyone wants to see it.
Here is the whole thing with a good look at the whole car:
[http://[video=youtube_share;DhLwAgSj44A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhLwAgSj44A[/video]] [archived image: yt_logo_rgb_light.png]]
The 1st-4th gear pull starts at 8:00 so here is a link to go to that if you want to ski the first part.
[http://[video=youtube_share;DhLwAgSj44A#t=8m4s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhLwAgSj44A#t=8m4s[/video]] [archived image: yt_logo_rgb_light.png]]
Demon Z: (2009-11-15 09:19:57)
Ok so I am thinking of doing this swap very soon but I'm not understanding one thing. Is it requirement to swap the VG30 crank and cams to the VG33? The reason I ask is I remember reading about how Careless did the swap and all he did was modify the oil pump (if I'm wrong please feel free to correct me). If you ask me I would think it would be easier to leave the VG33 as is and do some little things here and there. Not to mention if you were to swap the parts from the VG30 over to the VG33 wouldn't that hurt the hp and torque? Thanks.
Texas_Ace: (2009-11-15 18:46:06)
Actually it is easier to swap the crank over to the VG33 then make the VG33 work. It is a complete bolt in affair with the VG30 crank swap. Trying to use the VG33 as is, is a totally custom job. I have talked to at least 1 guy that used the VG33 as is and he agreed he wished he had just swapped cranks.
To use the VG33, you will still have to pull the crank and then have it machined. Might as well just toss in the VG30 crank while you have the VG33 crank out anyways, much easier and no custom work.
The cams you swap due to the VG33 cams being truck cams and made for low end torque. In a sports car that makes for a very boring power band.
As for swapping part hurting power, no just the opposite. The only thing that will change power are the cams, the cranks on them are exactly the same stroke so that wonât change anything power wise. The pathfinder intake is better but only when going for big numbers and once again that is not quite a bolt in swap which is what I was going for. But it could be done, people do it all the time.
You should have an engine in your car now, be it turbo or NA you can use the crank out of it. MUCH simpler then trying to get it machined, either way you have to remove and reinstalled the crank.
Careless: (2009-11-16 02:47:08)
[quote]Texas_Ace wrote:
Ok so I am thinking of doing this swap very soon but I'm not understanding one thing. Is it requirement to swap the VG30 crank and cams to the VG33? The reason I ask is I remember reading about how Careless did the swap and all he did was modify the oil pump (if I'm wrong please feel free to correct me). If you ask me I would think it would be easier to leave the VG33 as is and do some little things here and there. Not to mention if you were to swap the parts from the VG30 over to the VG33 wouldn't that hurt the hp and torque? Thanks.
Actually it is easier to swap the crank over to the VG33 then make the VG33 work. It is a complete bolt in affair with the VG30 crank swap. Trying to use the VG33 as is, is a totally custom job. I have talked to at least 1 guy that used the VG33 as is and he agreed he wished he had just swapped cranks.
To use the VG33, you will still have to pull the crank and then have it machined. Might as well just toss in the VG30 crank while you have the VG33 crank out anyways, much easier and no custom work.
The cams you swap due to the VG33 cams being truck cams and made for low end torque. In a sports car that makes for a very boring power band.
As for swapping part hurting power, no just the opposite. The only thing that will change power are the cams, the cranks on them are exactly the same stroke so that wonât change anything power wise. The pathfinder intake is better but only when going for big numbers and once again that is not quite a bolt in swap which is what I was going for. But it could be done, people do it all the time.
You should have an engine in your car now, be it turbo or NA you can use the crank out of it. MUCH simpler then trying to get it machined, either way you have to remove and reinstalled the crank.[/quote:rbbrg5ad]
most of what you said is untrue. if your vg33 crank is in good shape, there's little to be modified in reality. all you need to do is modify the oil pan and the oil pickup tube, use all your vg30 stuff, and use the vg33 cam gears and crank sprocket.
the reason why I personally spent money on the vg33 crank is because i had it ground, had it polished, had it nitrided, and had it balanced because I couldn't remove my vg30et out of my car when the vg33 was in the machine shop.
I actually just mounted my power steering pump this evening too, and it only takes little modification.
you can even use a z32 lightweight crank pulley to gain slight hp and still run accessory drives from the vg30.
my alternator, water pump, power steering, and im sure my AC if i still had it would all line up without much issue.
you will also need to bend the mounting tab on the lower coolant pipe and might need a new lower rad hose to bring it closer to the block for the power steering pump to clear.
Other than that, it's pretty standard fare.
dropping in the vg30 crank if you have one is definitely a good route if you're dipping into the bottom end anyway, but it's not as hard as it seems to put the vg33 bottom end bits back in.
Texas_Ace: (2009-11-16 03:09:30)
[quote]Careless wrote: [quote=Texas_Ace]
Ok so I am thinking of doing this swap very soon but I'm not understanding one thing. Is it requirement to swap the VG30 crank and cams to the VG33? The reason I ask is I remember reading about how Careless did the swap and all he did was modify the oil pump (if I'm wrong please feel free to correct me). If you ask me I would think it would be easier to leave the VG33 as is and do some little things here and there. Not to mention if you were to swap the parts from the VG30 over to the VG33 wouldn't that hurt the hp and torque? Thanks.
Actually it is easier to swap the crank over to the VG33 then make the VG33 work. It is a complete bolt in affair with the VG30 crank swap. Trying to use the VG33 as is, is a totally custom job. I have talked to at least 1 guy that used the VG33 as is and he agreed he wished he had just swapped cranks.
To use the VG33, you will still have to pull the crank and then have it machined. Might as well just toss in the VG30 crank while you have the VG33 crank out anyways, much easier and no custom work.
The cams you swap due to the VG33 cams being truck cams and made for low end torque. In a sports car that makes for a very boring power band.
As for swapping part hurting power, no just the opposite. The only thing that will change power are the cams, the cranks on them are exactly the same stroke so that wonât change anything power wise. The pathfinder intake is better but only when going for big numbers and once again that is not quite a bolt in swap which is what I was going for. But it could be done, people do it all the time.
You should have an engine in your car now, be it turbo or NA you can use the crank out of it. MUCH simpler then trying to get it machined, either way you have to remove and reinstalled the crank.
most of what you said is untrue. if your vg33 crank is in good shape, there's little to be modified in reality. all you need to do is modify the oil pan and the oil pickup tube, use all your vg30 stuff, and use the vg33 cam gears and crank sprocket.
the reason why I personally spent money on the vg33 crank is because i had it ground, had it polished, had it nitrided, and had it balanced because I couldn't remove my vg30et out of my car when the vg33 was in the machine shop.
I actually just mounted my power steering pump this evening too, and it only takes little modification.
you can even use a z32 lightweight crank pulley to gain slight hp and still run accessory drives from the vg30.
my alternator, water pump, power steering, and im sure my AC if i still had it would all line up without much issue.
you will also need to bend the mounting tab on the lower coolant pipe and might need a new lower rad hose to bring it closer to the block for the power steering pump to clear.
Other than that, it's pretty standard fare.
dropping in the vg30 crank if you have one is definitely a good route if you're dipping into the bottom end anyway, but it's not as hard as it seems to put the vg33 bottom end bits back in.[/quote:3m0hcs0m]
Well i would like to know how you plan to run 300zx accserires with the VG33 crank pulley since there is no way to mount the VG30 crank pully onto the VG33 crank witout modding the crank. In which case the machine work for the crank will be as much or more then a VG30 crank not to mention more time. I got my crank for $30, machine work costs more then that.
I just don't see a reason to spend both more time and money just for the sake of using a VG33 crank. There is no benifit from running the VG33 crank vs a VG30 crank.
And what exactly is untrue about what i said? Using a VG30 crank IS easier, IS a full bolt on deal and quicker not to mention cheaper if you have a doner engine which you really need to do this swap anyways. I never said it was impossible to use a Vtg33 crank, i said there is no reason and it is harder and makes no sense. I stand behind that when you can get a VG30 crank for under $50 or use your doner motors crank.
Careless: (2009-11-16 03:44:50)
I'm not going to start a pissing match here because both you and I have done this different ways, and it's very hard for either of us to consider the position the person on the opposite end was in, or how easy their swap went when building, etc. etc… All things considered, if you have a VG33 that you want to bolt on your things to, you don't even need to take the heads, crank, pulley or anything off of it…
You can just remove the oil pan, modify the pickup tube (I didnt cut or weld anything), and modify the oil pan.
Close it up, and never see it again.
It's really that easy. Some people don't feel like pulling the crank because then you have to pull the oil pump and the rear seal retainer, get a new rear seal, get a new oil pump while you're at it, new gaskets, might as well do this, do that.
The only thing I did was grind my power steering pump mounting boss so that I could space it forward. Get some belts for 15 bucks. and use your VG30 lifters (wear patterns matching, or get new ones) and cams with the VG33 cam gears.
That would, if you ask me, be easier than pulling and installing the vg30et crank… for the simple reason that Nissan has shitty rod bolt/studs. They are always the weak link in their rotating assemblies. The RB30 rods are almost identical to the VG30 rods, save for a couple of millimeters of length, and they use the same rod bolts, same big end bearing sizes too if I remember correctly (infact, same ACL part number). There are plenty of dudes in AUS who are blowing single cam RB30 engines to bits because they do not press in new Nissan or ARP studs or get new rods altogether, or they do not torque them properly.
I, personally, consider that to be the biggest factor in swapping cranks. Save for couple of other things… but to each their own. But for what it's worth, modifying a pick-up tube and swapping an oil pan is not that hard at all. other then that, a power steering pump.
But some would say power steering is for pussies. LOL. consider me a pussy. I just mounted my modified pump today. You do not need to use the Z31 crank pulley for accessory drive. And in using the vg33 crank, you now have more options for lightweight crank pulleys, as I believe the Z32 model will line up properly (I know it fits on the snout like a quest/villager/pathy pulley).
You say po-tay-tos, I say po-tah-tos. Basically what it comes down to.
This fellow, Demon_Z finds it a bit daunting to pull the crank and work through the bearing grading and buying a new pump and seal and gaskets etc. etc. If all he feels like doing is painting the block and putting the cams in, then I think that's easier.
I've seen people do that with junkyard 350's and LT1's.... Just pop a cam in, an exhaust, full roller valve train and some other small bits and pieces and belch out anywhere from 300-500 hp without ever touching a main bolt.
Some people would call that "easier" than taking a crank from one engine and putting it in another.
Texas_Ace: (2009-11-16 04:56:49)
Careless wrote: I'm not going to start a pissing match here because both you and I have done this different ways, and it's very hard for either of us to consider the position the person on the opposite end was in, or how easy their swap went when building, etc. etc… All things considered, if you have a VG33 that you want to bolt on your things to, you don't even need to take the heads, crank, pulley or anything off of it…
You can just remove the oil pan, modify the pickup tube (I didnt cut or weld anything), and modify the oil pan.
Close it up, and never see it again.
It's really that easy. Some people don't feel like pulling the crank because then you have to pull the oil pump and the rear seal retainer, get a new rear seal, get a new oil pump while you're at it, new gaskets, might as well do this, do that.
The only thing I did was grind my power steering pump mounting boss so that I could space it forward. Get some belts for 15 bucks. and use your VG30 lifters (wear patterns matching, or get new ones) and cams with the VG33 cam gears.
That would, if you ask me, be easier than pulling and installing the vg30et crank… for the simple reason that Nissan has shitty rod bolt/studs. They are always the weak link in their rotating assemblies. The RB30 rods are almost identical to the VG30 rods, save for a couple of millimeters of length, and they use the same rod bolts, same big end bearing sizes too if I remember correctly (infact, same ACL part number). There are plenty of dudes in AUS who are blowing single cam RB30 engines to bits because they do not press in new Nissan or ARP studs or get new rods altogether, or they do not torque them properly.
I, personally, consider that to be the biggest factor in swapping cranks. Save for couple of other things… but to each their own. But for what it's worth, modifying a pick-up tube and swapping an oil pan is not that hard at all. other then that, a power steering pump.
But some would say power steering is for pussies. LOL. consider me a *beep*. I just mounted my modified pump today. You do not need to use the Z31 crank pulley for accessory drive. And in using the vg33 crank, you now have more options for lightweight crank pulleys, as I believe the Z32 model will line up properly (I know it fits on the snout like a quest/villager/pathy pulley).
You say po-tay-tos, I say po-tah-tos. Basically what it comes down to.
This fellow, Demon_Z finds it a bit daunting to pull the crank and work through the bearing grading and buying a new pump and seal and gaskets etc. etc. If all he feels like doing is painting the block and putting the cams in, then I think that's easier.
I've seen people do that with junkyard 350's and LT1's.... Just pop a cam in, an exhaust, full roller valve train and some other small bits and pieces and belch out anywhere from 300-500 hp without ever touching a main bolt.
Some people would call that "easier" than taking a crank from one engine and putting it in another.
[quote=Texas_Ace]
Well i would like to know how you plan to run 300zx accserires with the VG33 crank pulley since there is no way to mount the VG30 crank pully onto the VG33 crank witout modding the crank. In which case the machine work for the crank will be as much or more then a VG30 crank not to mention more time. I got my crank for $30, machine work costs more then that.
I just don't see a reason to spend both more time and money just for the sake of using a VG33 crank. There is no benifit from running the VG33 crank vs a VG30 crank.
And what exactly is untrue about what i said? Using a VG30 crank IS easier, IS a full bolt on deal and quicker not to mention cheaper if you have a doner engine which you really need to do this swap anyways. I never said it was impossible to use a Vtg33 crank, i said there is no reason and it is harder and makes no sense. I stand behind that when you can get a VG30 crank for under $50 or use your doner motors crank.
I am not arguing anything you said. What i am saying is that swapping a crank is easier for me then trying to do all the custom work to use the VG33 crank pulley with the 300zx accessories. I still don't know how you would get the VG33 crank pulley to work with 300zx stuff. Now i think your motor came out of a Q45 IIRC?
Maybe it uses a different crank pulley then my pathfinder engine, in which case you could be on to something. I know that with my pathfinder pulley it used TOTALLY different kind of belts for the accessories. 300zx uses v-belts and the pathfinder pulley used ribbed belts. No way to make that work no matter what you did without a LOT of custom work and custom pulley for the power steering unit and AC. Plus a different sized pulley for the Alternator. And on top of that the spacing for all 3 was different. That is a lot of custom work vs just bolting in a crank.
The way I look at it, a set ~2 extra hours swapping cranks and then having the rest of the build 100% bolt on vs an unknown number of hours doing custom work and having custom pulleys made. Come to think of it you could not make the AC work with the pathfinder crank pulley no matter what due to the different belts used and the AC clutch not just something you can swap out or get custom made.
I would love to see a picture of the crank pulley you used now that I think about it and how you get this to work. I can not think of ANY way to get the crank pulley that came with my VG33 to work with the 300zx accessories under any circumstances.
Plus the simple fact is that swapping cranks make the whole swap a completely bolt in ordeal, which was my point in the above post. No custom work needed at all when swapping cranks.
Matt89: (2009-11-16 05:20:05)
All this could be avoided if you guys would ditch the power steering and ac crap. 1 belt FTW.
Careless: (2009-11-16 05:26:27)
I did. which is why i said it's easy. LOL.
Texas_Ace: (2009-11-16 05:30:10)
[quote]Careless wrote:
All this could be avoided if you guys would ditch the power steering and ac crap. 1 belt FTW.
I did. which is why i said it's easy. LOL.
Oh, well sure if you want to do that then yeah you can keep the VG33 crank pulley no problem just like you said.
I do my cars right though so i want everything to work as it was meant to, in which case swapping cranks is the easiest way for sure.
Careless: (2009-11-16 06:16:57)
I'm sorry to inform you, Tex… But you're mistaken. That is what I'm trying to tell you but you're assuming things that are not true.
The W-series, like my 87T, came with v-rib style belts.
As stated, THE ONLY thing I've done so far is grind the front of my power steering pump mounting hole to move it forward. I bought a pair of nylon bushings from lowes for two bucks, made the hole wider on one, and put it behind the pump to take up slack. I then put a longer bolt to fasten the adjustment bracket to the block.
THAT IS the only thing I did to get my VG33 accessories to line up. I even used my VG30 water pump with my VG30 water pump pulley.
Like I said, most of what you stated is incorrect in a vg33-2-T application where the vg33's entire longblock is used… The compressor IS something you can just swap out. With a later year. Or better yet, sell it on the boards here, and buy a later one from the boards here. Simple as that. But if you already HAVE the v-rib style… then you don't need to swap anything. I do have the v-rib style, and I intend on repairing my AC system when I get all the nice bits on my car.
''''''
I totally 110% undeniably agree with you. But that doesn't mean some would call it easier. Again, you're removing the big parts that are supposed to take the "boom" from the combustion chamber and turn at 6000RPM and putting them from one engine into the other. You rarely get second chances if something goes wrong. And if it does, you take it all out again.
Some are not comfortable with bearing grading. Some are not comfortable with even torquing shit down. I know I checked my ARP main studs about 5 or 100 times, and tried different torque sequences until I found one that rotated 1320 degrees without any binding. And I can guarantee that 1% of those times it binded… the first time. Every other time it was my imagination.
For you, and I, and other people that like doing this stuff. I would take the crank out and even have it polished. I can totally understand that. But that doesn't mean it's easier.And that definitely doesn't mean that VG33 Long block is not a drop in affair. Don't be fooled. It's as close as a swap can get! I'd consider it as much drop in as an NA2T.
And I'm saying that because not only am I using the VG33 crank pulley… But I ALSO removed my crank, had it GROUND, checked my clearances, and did my own entire engine build, as have many many others from this board, and I'm sure you have aswell with your other cars… I bet even more times than me.
What I'm getting at is that its ppl who've done it, like you and I, and plenty others on the board who should understand why some people DON'T want to be in their crank case doing that stuff, and why some people SHOULDN'T be in their crank case doing this stuff.
I have friends who go too far into engines and don't take my advice on things I have more experience than they do with (actually just happened with a timing belt this weekend), and they don't want to listen because they can't wrap their head around things and say "whatever" and ignore it. So I go about my own business and watch… and when it breaks "they did it".
That's all I'm saying.
- Some would say leave the bottom end alone if you're not buying new bearings
- Some would say leave it alone if you're not buying new rod bolts
- Some would say don't touch the bottom end or pull the crank if you're not going to replace all the bearings, rings, and have the block honed.
- Some would say leave it alone if you're not mechanically inclined enough to use a torque wrench or plastigauge, or pulling rotating assemblies feels daunting to you.
… But I'm almost certain that 99% of the people here would say that modifying a power steering pump or a bracket is a heck of a lot easier and gives you way more "second tries" at something than screwing up a crank install.
Texas_Ace: (2009-11-16 06:33:55)
[quote]Careless wrote: I'm sorry to inform you, Tex… But you're mistaken. That is what I'm trying to tell you but you're assuming things that are not true.
The W-series, like my 87T, came with v-rib style belts.
As stated, THE ONLY thing I've done so far is grind the front of my power steering pump mounting hole to move it forward. I bought a pair of nylon bushings from lowes for two bucks, made the hole wider on one, and put it behind the pump to take up slack. I then put a longer bolt to fasten the adjustment bracket to the block.
THAT IS the only thing I did to get my VG33 accessories to line up. I even used my VG30 water pump with my VG30 water pump pulley.
I am not arguing anything you said. What i am saying is that swapping a crank is easier for me then trying to do all the custom work to use the VG33 crank pulley with the 300zx accessories. I still don't know how you would get the VG33 crank pulley to work with 300zx stuff. Now i think your motor came out of a Q45 IIRC?
Q45's are 4.5 litres. 3.3 litre engines came in the QX4, Pathfinder, Quest, Villager.
My engine is from a 99 Quest, and thus, the crank pulley I am using is the Quest pulley. It's kind of heavy and large and are known to fly apart, but I'll be upgrading to a Z32 lightweight pulley because I can. Something we cannot say for W series Z guys if they ever happen to decide it's time to lose weight from their snout.
Here's where you made your assumption. I know your car is an A/B series because I remember what it looks like. I remember that you're selling it (which makes me sad [archived image: frown.png]) and I remember that I really liked it and it looks really clean, and I normally don't like zenki/chuki body styles.
Being of that style, I think my assumption that the crank you took from your vg30 is an A/B series crank and has V-belt pulley on it is far more accurate than the assumption that modifying the entire accessory drive to accept 300zx stuff to work on it or modifying the crank from the vg33 engine is going to be a nightmare.
It's not. Very little has to change. W-series engines came with V-Rib style belts. INFACT. I used my original water pump, water pump pulley, quest crank pulley, 350z alternator and new 300zx Z31 alternator/waterpump BELT and it STILL all works and has good tension. And the 350z alternator was used on the vg30et before it started to smoke anyway. So in reality, the only thing that's changed is the Quest Pulley… and it still works.
Texas_Ace wrote:
The way I look at it, a set ~2 extra hours swapping cranks and then having the rest of the build 100% bolt on vs an unknown number of hours doing custom work and having custom pulleys made. Come to think of it you could not make the AC work with the pathfinder crank pulley no matter what due to the different belts used and the AC clutch not just something you can swap out or get custom made.
Like I said, most of what you stated is incorrect in a vg33-2-T application where the vg33's entire longblock is used… The compressor IS something you can just swap out. With a later year. Or better yet, sell it on the boards here, and buy a later one from the boards here. Simple as that. But if you already HAVE the v-rib style… then you don't need to swap anything. I do have the v-rib style, and I intend on repairing my AC system when I get all the nice bits on my car.
''''''
I totally 110% undeniably agree with you. But that doesn't mean some would call it easier. Again, you're removing the big parts that are supposed to take the "boom" from the combustion chamber and turn at 6000RPM and putting them from one engine into the other. You rarely get second chances if something goes wrong. And if it does, you take it all out again.
Some are not comfortable with bearing grading. Some are not comfortable with even torquing shit down. I know I checked my ARP main studs about 5 or 100 times, and tried different torque sequences until I found one that rotated 1320 degrees without any binding. And I can guarantee that 1% of those times it binded… the first time. Every other time it was my imagination.
For you, and I, and other people that like doing this stuff. I would take the crank out and even have it polished. I can totally understand that. But that doesn't mean it's easier.And that definitely doesn't mean that VG33 Long block is not a drop in affair. Don't be fooled. It's as close as a swap can get! I'd consider it as much drop in as an NA2T.
And I'm saying that because not only am I using the VG33 crank pulley… But I ALSO removed my crank, had it GROUND, checked my clearances, and did my own entire engine build, as have many many others from this board, and I'm sure you have aswell with your other cars… I bet even more times than me.
What I'm getting at is that its ppl who've done it, like you and I, and plenty others on the board who should understand why some people DON'T want to be in their crank case doing that stuff, and why some people SHOULDN'T be in their crank case doing this stuff.
I have friends who go too far into engines and don't take my advice on things I have more experience than they do with (actually just happened with a timing belt this weekend), and they don't want to listen because they can't wrap their head around things and say "whatever" and ignore it. So I go about my own business and watch… and when it breaks "they did it".
That's all I'm saying.
- Some would say leave the bottom end alone if you're not buying new bearings
- Some would say leave it alone if you're not buying new rod bolts
- Some would say don't touch the bottom end or pull the crank if you're not going to replace all the bearings, rings, and have the block honed. />- Some would say leave it alone if you're not mechanically inclined enough to use a torque wrench or plastigauge, or pulling rotating assemblies feels daunting to you.
… But I'm almost certain that 99% of the people here would say that modifying a power steering pump or a bracket is a heck of a lot easier and gives you way more "second tries" at something than screwing up a crank install.[/quote:1oykheeq]
Ok, that makes MUCH more sense. See I know exactly nothing about Z cars other then what I have learned on my car. I have never had another one and never been a part of the Z community till 6 months ago.
So I just assumed that my factory crank pulley was the same throughout the Z31 series. My mistake.
See now that you explained it I now understand what you were saying and have to agree with you knowing what I know now. But you also have to see where I was coming from my advice that swapping cranks is easier then trying to make the VG33 crank work was well founded with me having no idea there was a v-ribbed belt version of the 300zx.
aceman: (2009-11-16 06:38:33)
It is easier, cheaper, and better to use a vg30 crank for your swap. Regardless of what your reasons are careless, thats just how it is. Its not worth arguing with you here, because it was said in several other build threads.
Bottom line is Texas Ace's car was done correctly, will perform better than stock while being completely reliable. And is a steal for the money he is asking.
Careless: (2009-11-16 06:51:41)
Not disagreeing. That's why I did the vg33 swap too. But that's not the say that using a quest crank is going to make the car unreliable, slower, or any less "correct"… because if that's what you're saying then I'm going to agree to disagree.
Careless: (2009-11-16 07:13:11)
Yes, indeed your work was well founded… but there are too many misconceptions on the internet and having done the swap I can honestly say that If I were someone who's never pulled a crank or checked bearings or done this stuff on other engines… I would try and get it to work with the VG33 crank and in the end it wouldn't be a big issue for accessories. The water pump and alternator belt is really the only one you need anyway, and you can get those from a number of nissans to convert to the v-rib style from an older accessory drive style.
Like I said, the person obviously asked if he had to pull the crank for a reason. Reason being is that he probably doesn't want to pull the crank and have to go through all that comes with doing that.
So for HIM, it would be easier.
And it would cost the same. And it would actually have less chance of error because there's less changes to a bottom end assembly that was previously working.
That's all I was trying to say.
sometimes pulling the crank isn't the easiest.
aceman: (2009-11-16 08:20:19)
Less oil volume with the quest oil pump, and if the donor motor came from a frontier, pathfinder or xterra, you cant use the oil pump with a turbo motor mount.
so much for not arguing with you in this thread.
Careless: (2009-11-16 18:42:44)
[quote]aceman wrote:
you tell me which one has more room for kaboom.Less oil volume with the quest oil pump, and if the donor motor came from a frontier, pathfinder or xterra, you cant use the oil pump with a turbo motor mount.
so much for not arguing with you in this thread.
So much for trying to keep correct information in this conversation.
The quest pump puts out enough oil volume to match with 300zx Turbo specs.
Check the manuals. It even has more pressure.
It's not the Pathfinder, Frontier, or Xterra oil pump that has the problem.
It's the QUEST and VILLAGER Oil Filter ADAPTER that is too long.
You must be forgetting that I just did this WITH the quest motor and crank.
This is why you guys are saying it's easier. Because you haven't done it this way.
When I did it, I pretty much did BOTH the crank swap and the simple modifications in one fell swoop.
I'm just saying, pulling the crank, oil pumps, rear seal retainers, rod caps, main girdle, and retorquing everything and hoping it works is not EASIER than grinding a power steering pump and torching an oil pickup tube and cutting an oil pan in like 3 places.
If you think it is, then fine. go tell people to do that.
Texas_Ace: (2009-11-16 19:01:54)
Well you are also being short minded. If that has a 300zx like mine, doing it you way means they have to get ALL new power steering pump, AC compresser and alternator, a good $500 at least to convert to your setup. No to mention i don't know if those are just plug right up.
In that case of a car like yours, sure you can do some custom work and get it to work. In a car like mine a bolt in option is a LOT easier.
Plus i know a lot of people that can do pretty much anything that is bolt on but are scared stupid of the word custom.
Careless: (2009-11-16 20:21:45)
Like I said, you can get what you need from the forums for little to nothing, and these are things you should be upgrading anyway if you have the means to go to a VG33. You should get a better alternator to handle e-fans… so get one with a V-Rib, or get a pulley from someone on the boards. What is that, like 10 bucks WITH shipping? Water pump pulley? probably included in the same 10 bucks.
To me, custom is fabricating something. IT WILL NOT COST 500 DOLLARS to get your accessories to work on your VG33 pulley.
WHY are you saying that without ever even trying to do it?
'''
I LITERALLY used a grinder and a thick disk to grind the pump down. That's it :-/
And I used a MAPP Torch to bend the pickup tube.
Everything else is "bolt on". It boggles my mind how you guys think that grinding a power steering pump and heating and bending a pickup tube is HARDER than removing a crank. THAT is my whole point. You guys are ignoring what I'm saying. Mainly because other people have done it by swapping cranks to keep their accessories.
I'm saying that there's not much to worry about. No big deal. The world isn't gonna explode if you use VG33 cranks in VG33 blocks.
But whatever. My point is that you can work with what you got. If all you got is a VG33, then you can still do this easily/easier. If you have a A/B VG30, then you can stick with swapping cranks, which is still by no means "easier", and people need to stop saying that it is. Besides, with all the woodruff keys shearing and the cranks being redesigned for the W series, I wouldn't bother to use an A/B series crank. I'd try to find a W at that point… but then what's the point? Use your VG33 crank.
I'm not being short minded because even if I had an A/B series crank, I would still try to find a W series crank to put in.
But sure, if you wanna work with what you got, then swap cranks. It's still not "easier"
Allout: (2009-11-17 02:21:48)
Careless - Do you have some pictures of your Oil Pickup Tube after modifications?
Careless: (2009-11-17 02:36:05)
indeed i do. i have pictures of everything. even the grinding i did on the power steering pump boss.
lemme bother my brother for his external hdd to download them and edit the size and i'll post them.
but according to my thread where I discussed it, aceman said I was "doing it wrong" because I used the vg33 pump… not sure if I should post information on how I did everything so wrongly and I now have a running VG33ET that works, despite a set of soggy lifters and a boost leak.
… cause you know.. I did it wrong :-/
Allout: (2009-11-17 02:57:41)
[quote]Careless wrote:
Careless - Do you have some pictures of your Oil Pickup Tube after modifications?
indeed i do. i have pictures of everything. even the grinding i did on the power steering pump boss.
lemme bother my brother for his external hdd to download them and edit the size and i'll post them.
but according to my thread where I discussed it, aceman said I was "doing it wrong" because I used the vg33 pump… not sure if I should post information on how I did everything so wrongly and I now have a running VG33ET that works, despite a set of soggy lifters and a boost leak.
… cause you know.. I did it wrong :-/
lol - you can PM me the pictures then. I'm equally retarded. I just can't see opening up a perfectly good bottom end that only has 27K miles on it.
Careless: (2009-11-17 03:19:22)
[quote]Allout wrote: [quote=Careless]
Careless - Do you have some pictures of your Oil Pickup Tube after modifications?
indeed i do. i have pictures of everything. even the grinding i did on the power steering pump boss.
lemme bother my brother for his external hdd to download them and edit the size and i'll post them.
but according to my thread where I discussed it, aceman said I was "doing it wrong" because I used the vg33 pump… not sure if I should post information on how I did everything so wrongly and I now have a running VG33ET that works, despite a set of soggy lifters and a boost leak.
… cause you know.. I did it wrong :-/
lol - you can PM me the pictures then. I'm equally retarded. I just can't see opening up a perfectly good bottom end that only has 27K miles on it.
Careless: (2009-11-17 03:22:43)
.
Careless: (2009-11-17 03:23:25)
nothing more than a grinder and mapp gas.
I also had modified the rounded portion that goes into the oil pump further by heating it up and pressing it out so it was a little wider using a long socket extension for a 1/4 inch drive ratchet.
It's actually easy to do as when you heat up the pick-up tube to red hot, you can see where you're pressing from inside the tube using a steel object because it starts to cool the area and extract heat from where you're pressing.
That makes it easy to see how well you're doing when rounding it out.
Allout: (2009-11-17 03:47:04)
Thanks for the posting the pictures Careless. I think it came out very nice.
I think the point is that this conversion can be done either way depending on what's available to you. I would agree if you had to start from scratch and had a good VG30 crank available, that would be my first choice. If you have a perfectly good VG33, it can be made to work without a problem also.
You guys have both done nice jobs with your builds so kudos to you both. The Z31 community is clearly the winner here!
Careless: (2009-11-17 03:57:20)
I'll agree with that.
or if you have a fresh engine that you'd rather not take apart to that degree (as you first stated)… you could keep it together for the most part and worry about accessories later.
any way you slice it… crank or accessories. it's not THAT hard, considering what's needed. I mean… either method doesn't even require you to pull the heads off the long block and you get a displacement increase.
I'm unaware of any other import engines that you could effectively do that with, which is a great plus, considering these vg33 engines are of more abundance than vg30's nowadays.
I think it sux that Tex has to sell his though! BOOOOOO!
The Real Zed: (2009-11-19 06:27:21)
Bingo.
If you have a perfectly good VG33 donor motor, there is absolutely no reason why you can't use the long block in its entirety (minus the use of VG30et cams, Turbo manifolds, upper & lower intake, etc).
Whoever seriously believes that swapping out a crank is easier than modifying a power steering pump, bending a pick-up tube and AT THE MOST, swap the accessory pullies to the 87t+ v-rib style is hilarious.
It's bad enough that you're re-using stock stretch-to-yield rod bolts, which means when you re-torque them, they're no longer in spec.
Bottom end work is intimidating to people for good reason, because if something is done incorrectly, even the slightest bit, you have just shortened the reliability of that engine drastically.
To Allout, I highly recommend you not pull your perfectly working bottom end apart on your VG33 to do this swap. It's one thing if you're building a new motor from the bottom up to use the VG30 crank so everything will be a 'bolt-on', but its another to start removing your bottom end, because now you're losing the stock reliability factor. How long do you think those stock VG33 rod bolts will hold up under boost AND abuse before you spin a bearing, throw a rod or both because you're re-using an already weak part from Nissan?
Both ways will work obviously, but swapping a crank is in no way easier than bending a tube, and swapping some pulleys, no matter which way you cut it, end of discussion, lol.
aceman: (2009-11-19 07:05:57)
My crank swap motor has about 5k miles of 400whp+, on the original rod bolts. They arent as weak as you seem to think. how many have you broken?
and besides ARP's are what $45 shipped?
The Real Zed: (2009-11-19 07:22:34)
[quote]aceman wrote:
How long do you think those stock VG33 rod bolts will hold up under boost AND abuse before you spin a bearing, throw a rod or both because you're re-using an already weak part from Nissan?
Both ways will work obviously, but swapping a crank is in no way easier than bending a tube, and swapping some pulleys, no matter which way you cut it, end of discussion, lol.
My crank swap motor has about 5k miles of 400whp+, on the original rod bolts. They arent as weak as you seem to think. how many have you broken?
and besides ARP's are what $45 shipped?
Thats fine and dandy, but it's not proper. i didn't say it wont work. I've seen more backyard mechanic work than i'd care to share but swapping the crank and reusing any stock stretch-to-yield bolts just isn't smart. I haven't personally broken one, but the fact is the stock Nissan bolts are a weak link in the bottom end, and them being stretch-to-yield means they shouldn't be re-used, so when you re-use them anyways you drastically reduce the engines reliability.
Anyways, for the $40-60 it costs for new ARP's, it seems like a good insurance policy to me. Better than stock bolts, which should have been replaced in the first place anyways, right?
aceman: (2009-11-19 07:32:27)
they are the weak link of 25 year old vg30 and rb30's, i agree. and we are side tracked.
both ways are made to work, but alot of us like bolt ins.
Careless: (2009-11-19 07:36:55)
my point being that a bolt in doesn't make it easier and in this case doesn't make it more reliable either, if you're not even removing the heads to remove the rod bolts from the rods you would be taking out… then perhaps the piston rings since they've got a wear pattern, replacing head gaskets, seals, etc.
that's not sidetracking from what was originally stated in this thread. at least someone agrees with me.
so while I respect the fact that Texas_Ace has a running and working beautiful zenki (and I don't even like zenki's that much), it doesn't make his way "the right", "the proper", "the reliable" way. It's essentially the "more work" way.
But whatever. either works.
both our running engines are a testament to that.
Texas_Ace: (2009-11-19 07:46:15)
I agree with that now that i know all th facts and that later 300zx's came with v-rib belts and acsesseries. Before i knew that i had good reason for my argument that swapping cranks was the only way.
Now that i know otherwise i still say that swapping cranks is the best way if your car came with v-belts like mine but if you have a v-ribbed belt car then keep the stock crank by all means.
Both do indeed work, like you said we have proven that. We both have differnt ideas of how to do it and what is better. We will both defend our version of the swap till the end of time. i am willing to admit that if you have a V-rubbed belt version of the 300zx that keeping the stock crank is about the same amount of work and just as good as swapping cranks. And depending on your skill level could be a better option.
I also say that with a car like mine swapping cranks is better. And i do stand behind the fact that my car is and looks stock, no one would know i have a VG33 under there or anything was not factory for that matter unless i told them or they REALLY knew there 300's (whihc i have shown this car to a few 300zx guys so far, none of them could tell it was a VG33 or was not bone stock). I like my cars to both look and work like stock. Others have differnt tastes, you are welcome to have your own tastes.
Careless: (2009-11-19 07:59:54)
yeah the Turbo 3000 engine plate really throws them off :-D
I like when a conversation goes like this:
"so this isn't the stock engine is it? it's all painted"
and i say "no… it's a little different?"
"what's different… where's it from"
- look around for nissan quest or mercury villager ***
"that thing" ** pointing finger **
"A MINIVAN?! SHUT UP"
SupSay Z: (2010-02-16 03:05:52)
so, to you guys that have actually done the swap, im planning on doing this very soon (my method of choice will be leaving the bottom end intact, in case you are wondering), what are your boost/hp numbers? i need to know how good these pistons will hold up to boost. from a little bit of research i did seems forged pistons are VERY pricey for this application.
Texas_Ace: (2010-02-16 04:19:48)
Well my car is now sold and all it ever saw was the stock turbo but i ran up to 12psi on that and it never had an issue.
Tempestas: (2010-02-16 20:58:01)
yeah, this is old, but i just read it. rock on.
alot of thing people complain about boggles my mind.
figure out what you need to do to make something work and make it work.
Geoffs89Pathy: (2010-10-29 08:47:40)
just read the full thread, careless, i pmed you.
i have a 89 z31 with multiribbed belt pulleys on all my accessories, if i put my z31 heADS on the vg33 i need to port match a galley or two, get a z32 crank pulley, and leave the bottom end alone, i should be okay. ill need vg33 cam gears also. the oil pump and oil filter location should be fine on an na from a quest right? if not i have a VG33 oil pump from a 2000 Xterra. lol which should work.
reason for me swapping out the bottom end? the crank snout is no good on my z31 engine. therefore i need a new crank which i have, from a 89 pathfinder engine, but to swap cranks from 2 21 year old engines, (pathfinder 217k, z31 147k) just doesnt make sense to me, especially when i can bolt in .3 more displacement. (about 20 more horses or so) with less miles.
the only other question i have in mind is about the crank pulleys and harmonic balancers. the stock z31 crank pulley/harmonic balancer is one unit, and what is the VG33/ Z32 crank pulley like.?
are there any VG33 multiribbed crank pulleys? which one works best? i want all this to work without modding the oil pan or the brackets at all. so if there is a way i would like to know of it. i think maybe my old pathfinder pickup tube maybe used to combine the two other engines?
thanks for the great thread and both parties staying polite while making there arguments. its nice for a change.
so if there is anything i am missing please inform me asap as i will be doing this asap.
z31 top end
VG33 bottom end
z32 crank pulley with z31 multiribbed accessories, should make it a bolt on affair from what i've gathered so far.
minus the oil pickup and pan mod, which i hope to find a bolt on solution for.
anyways, i hope there is hope for me and my quest to do this project under 500 bucks.
Texas_Ace: (2010-10-29 17:42:45)
Somone else would have to comment on using the VG33 crank in this swap, i find that a lot of extra work unless somone found a plug and play way to do it.
Far as the heads go, you don't need to swap heads, just the cams from the VG30 to the VG33 so you get a better top end. LOT easier then swapping the whole heads.
Then you need all the timing belt side to be from the same engine, aka all either VG30 or VG33.
Crank pulley i have no clue, i have not been around much since selling my car.
Geoffs89Pathy: (2010-10-30 00:17:27)
i think i got it pretty much all figured out, it will be done by next week.
EzekielF: (2024-04-24 14:12:32)
Do the parts from the vg30e mount in the same way as a vg30et’s parts would? Is there even a difference?