Forums/Z31P/z31-performance-upgrade-forums engine-mechanical-aa/Built 3.4 Turbo Advice
Imported from Z31Performance.com Forums{{#if:Shannon| — original post by Shannon}}{{#if:2013-12-25 01:16:17|, posted 2013-12-25 01:16:17}}{{#if:20| · 20 post{{#ifeq:20|1||s}}}}{{#if:/Z31performance_archive/forum/z31-performance-upgrade-forums/engine-mechanical-aa/23112-built-3-4-turbo-advice.html|
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Shannon: (2013-12-25 01:16:17)
So I bought an unfinished Z31 project and need help on a turbo selection. According to PO it has a built 3.3 and there is paperwork to back his claim. Anyway, stock housing was machined to accept a p trim wheel so I was wondering about either a 60-1 or T67. I'd rather the car be fun to drive in the mid-range. So initially I thought the 60-1 would be the better fit but maybe with this motor the T67 would be preferable. It a 3.3 bored to 3.4, stage 3 cams, gutted intake manifold, 1mm oversize valves, port and polished intake manifolds, adjustable cam gears, etc. Doesn't seem like anything was missed as far as I can tell.
G-E: (2013-12-25 04:51:22)
Well strictly speaking, with those mods your mid-range will be torquey regardless of boost… so I would start at the top, how much hp would you like to squeeze out of it, and what do you want your redline to be?
Shannon: (2013-12-27 04:07:59)
I'm not really concerned with making a dyno queen with a peaky hp number, I'd rather have as much area under the curve as possible instead. I'm not real sure about the redline…I was searching around the forum and most built motors are running around 7k so I guess that is probably the max safe redline.
G-E: (2013-12-27 05:10:56)
Torque won't be a problem, your torque curve will more closely resemble a turbo diesel than a ferrari engine… but the max hp will help us recommend the right size turbo that isn't needlessly large
To give you an idea, a normal 9:1 vg33 with a holset hx35 at fairly high boost (normal for a holset mind you), should be able to get you into the 350hp/420tq range
Shannon: (2013-12-27 21:16:48)
Sorry for being such a newb…I'm reading the faqs and browsing thru the forum to try and get up to speed. Since tq won't really be an issue, how far can I safely go on pump gas? I read about the fuel pump, maf and injectors being limitations. The maf and fuel pump were replaced with z32 tt units and the injectors are rx7 680cc. Would 400hp be feasible?
G-E: (2013-12-27 23:22:07)
What's pump gas to you? 680cc should be fine into the 600hp range with premium, but the z32 afm won't go much past 450hp, and the z32 pump might run out of steam before then too
michaelp: (2013-12-28 03:43:25)
This is incorrect. Felix (z31t) made 709whp with a Z31 ECU that was Nistuned, HUGE injectors and a Z32 MAF. The stock Z31 MAF can pull off almost 450whp if you do some scaling.
Stock Z32TT fuel pump is 260lph btw
stufferton: (2013-12-28 08:00:45)
Wasn't Felix running E85 though? I know that you need more of it to make similar power to pump, but it's safer? I've never really looked into the benefit of E85 compared to pump, and why people make the switch in the first place. Is it just safer from a tuning perspective?
G-E: (2013-12-28 09:30:38)
Well that is only "incorrect" if nistune is incorrect, and if he indeed made 700hp using the z32 element, I'm sure it was installed in a larger pipe, ie. the metering was rescaled
michaelp: (2013-12-28 16:16:28)
Stock MAF housing,.
But assuming stuff with no actual knowledge and experience is what you do best [archived image: wink.png]
Consider the fact that there are numerous 600+whp Z32TTs running on stock MAFs and ECUs that have been retuned.
stufferton: (2013-12-28 20:00:55)
From his build thread, page 6 near the bottom ish.
G-E: (2013-12-28 22:07:38)
You also know damn well z32's measure half the airflow with separate intakes… so in that case the limit is far higher
So how do you get 650hp out of it?
michaelp: (2013-12-29 04:12:27)
Having owned multiple Z32s, I will inform you now, once, that Z32s Y the intake into 1 through the MAF. Only aftermarket intake setups with retunes can use the MAF on only one bank…and its inaccurate.
Nice try though. Another ignorant statement made with zero experience or knowledge of the situation.
[archived image: 30047860012_large.jpg]
G-E: (2013-12-29 05:33:01)
Guess you gotta tell this guy he's wrong too
http://redz31.suomiz.net/pages/fuel/afmcrap.html
…and this guy
http://www.paulr33.com/diagrams/airf…er-wiring.html
…and these guys
http://www.frsport.com/index.php?tar…roduct_id=1250
Axel kain: (2013-12-29 07:42:20)
Im confused by your argument here. they're wrong about what? that the Z32/J30 etc. MAF is a 0-5V scale, instead of the 2-7v like the Z31's? Also - from the Z32's Ive worked on, and information I have dug up/ seen posted. Michaelp is correct. plus - wanted to note my brother's Z31 is running great on a Z32 or a J30 MAF currently on a nistuned '86 ( I think) ECU.
G-E: (2013-12-29 08:13:33)
Well I was under the impression that the z32 metered up to 500hp worth of AIR when used with gasoline… mike is arguing it's good up to 600-700hp?
michaelp: (2013-12-29 11:45:39)
You just can't admit when you're wrong, can you? lol
I can't find the link either, but about 5 years ago I found a car running 660whp on pump gas with an unopened VG30DETT and the stock, single, MAF.
Its also worth noting that redZ31.com stuff was mostly written when many people still thought boosting a NA was a bad idea…the R33 site says "should", which means "I don't know, so I'm going to guesS", and frsport says "Supports MORE than 450hp" - unless you don't know what the word More meanss
And 700whp requires the same amount of air if running Gasoline or E85…E85 just requires 30% more fuel - therefor the MAF meters the same amount of air both both regardless.
G-E: (2013-12-29 12:34:34)
I didn't say I wasn't wrong, I leave that possibility open, I just said the whole internet appears to be wrong… but you aren't calling them stupid
Shannon: (2014-07-03 14:56:14)
Eh, didn't mean to stir up any trouble. I did some more searching on the forum and Streetfighter's posts in particular swayed me on going with the T67. I'll let you know in a couple months how it turns out.
Axel kain: (2014-07-03 20:09:14)
^the best info is the compressor maps, and even better when someone is running a turbo you're considering, what they're dyno map shows! that way you can figure out how your part throttle/drivability will be off peak.