Forums/Z31P/z31-performance-upgrade-forums engine-mechanical-aa/Header Studs
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sgtpepper67: (2011-08-01 15:47:49)
After almost three months of waiting, I finally got my MSA headers in the mail. Before I start installing them I would like to get my hands on some new exhaust manifold studs, however, I don't know what size they are.
I've spent alot of time researching them, but apparently it wasn't enough. I know they are m8's but I don't know the thread pitch. One site, I think it was redz31.com, or somwthing similar to that, said they are m8x1.5. I've also read numerous posts saying that ls1 studs will work, but those are m8x1.25.
My car is a 1986 2+2 n/a, what studs do I need? Id really like to avoid having to drill and retap the holes in the head…thanks in advance for any information.
Careless: (2011-08-01 16:02:27)
whatever the LS1 studs are, that's what the size/pitch is- because LS1 studs are a known upgrade.
if you buy from nissan, you'll get newer studs that superceed the old ones with a new "design" that is a bit harder/better steel than the ones that your car came with.
But LS1 bolts are still a good investment.
iamrobed: (2011-08-01 16:07:27)
m8x1.25, napa
DeleriousZ: (2011-08-01 16:41:30)
spend the dime on the ARP studs for the ls-1, and you'll never buy another exhaust manifold stud again.
sgtpepper67: (2011-08-01 17:35:17)
Hey, thanks for the quick responses guys. Now here's a stupid question, are the turbo manifold studs a different thread pitch or are they all the same?
iamrobed: (2011-08-01 17:42:05)
all same, just different places
sgtpepper67: (2011-08-01 18:13:27)
In that case, mr. Jason from redz31.net has a correction to make on his site.
Andrevas: (2011-08-01 18:20:10)
explain…?
sgtpepper67: (2011-08-01 19:20:11)
http://redz31.net/turbofaq/turbo.faq.htm
Scroll to the headwork section towards the bottom of the page. He specifies that the manifold studs are m8x1.5 instead of m8x1.25.
300zxturboftw: (2011-08-01 19:25:21)
As stated. Buy LS1 ARP exhaust studs. Never look back.
sgtpepper67: (2011-08-01 19:44:05)
That's the new plan now. They really aren't too expensive compared to stock nissan studs. The dealer here wants almost $50 just for the studs. For $100 I can get a nice set of stainless ARP studs along with the washers and nuts I need as well.
iamrobed: (2011-08-01 19:49:49)
think i paid 8 for all mine with nuts, been workin fine for a year, and i will never dicrase my car with anything chevy
300zxturboftw: (2011-08-01 20:11:55)
[quote]sgtpepper67 wrote:
As stated. Buy LS1 ARP exhaust studs. Never look back.
That's the new plan now. They really aren't too expensive compared to stock nissan studs. The dealer here wants almost $50 just for the studs. For $100 I can get a nice set of stainless ARP studs along with the washers and nuts I need as well.
Use blue loctite on the nuts/studs. Otherwise you will be calling ARP for replacements like I did.
628sx: (2011-08-19 17:44:25)
ok.... WTF… i went in yesterday and the ARP book we looked at said the LS1 studs are M8x1.75......? plus it only had one thread pitch listed
628sx: (2011-08-19 17:51:37)
oh and how nice, my nissan dealer doesn't list they and can't order them. so back up plan is fucked
NissanEgg: (2011-08-19 17:53:11)
How many times do we have to tell you that your local Nissan dealer sucks sweaty donkey balls? They are feeding you BS. Studs are still avaible and easily ordered.
Careless: (2011-08-19 18:06:17)
my friend lives near a Toyota dealer with some stupid guy named Zully that works there. All he does is spout off prices off the top of his head. Washer pump? "80 bucks man". it's 42 fucking dollars. e-brake shoes? "set of 4, 250 dollars". are you kidding me? They're 93 bucks for the entire set.
I called the dealership OWNER and said if Zully gives me one more off-the-rim price, I'm going to file a formal complaint with Toyota with registered mail to make sure they got it because my friend has been applying to be at the parts desk due to a physical injury that doesn't allow him to do trades work like he used to… and he would be much better suited to be a parts-minder than this lazy ass good for nothing worker who is lucky to have a job, ignoring the fact that he can barely speak english.
If you let the dealership feed you bullshit… you're going to eat bullshit.
Needless to say, Zully uses the computer to check prices now.
DeleriousZ: (2011-08-19 18:08:01)
I've listed the part numbers of the correct ls1 studs in one of the previous threads, the info is out there somewhere!
628sx: (2011-08-19 18:49:57)
[quote]NissanEgg wrote:
oh and how nice, my nissan dealer doesn't list they and can't order them. so back up plan is fuckedHow many times do we have to tell you that your local Nissan dealer sucks sweaty donkey balls? They are feeding you BS. Studs are still avaible and easily ordered.
Yeah, they're F*ckin stupid. It's either a lack of caring, or the parts guy is just a retard. Anyway, called the GM dealer, and they have them in stock. he was just confused cause they were listed under LS6.
628sx: (2011-08-19 20:35:05)
um...... stock LS1 "studs"
I argued with the guy for a lil bit. but thats the stock LS1 exhaust mani to head bolts..
sgtpepper67: (2011-08-19 21:20:21)
Yea, the bolts are stock. The aftermarket arp set are the stud and nut type.
628sx: (2011-08-19 21:42:30)
Yeah. That's wut i figured. These will work though, right?
300zxturboftw: (2011-08-19 22:50:35)
They are definitely m8x1.25. Think standards....m12 would be 1.75 pitch.
628sx: (2011-08-19 23:03:00)
[quote]300zxturboftw wrote:
ok.... WTF… i went in yesterday and the ARP book we looked at said the LS1 studs are M8x1.75......? plus it only had one thread pitch listed
They are definitely m8x1.25. Think standards....m12 would be 1.75 pitch.
But i was pretty sure M8 or M12 would refer to the diameter of the shank on the bolt, where the 1.25 or 1.75 would be the thread pitch tho right?
628sx: (2011-08-19 23:03:17)
300zxturboftw: (2011-08-20 00:54:05)
[quote]628sx wrote: [quote=300zxturboftw]
ok.... WTF… i went in yesterday and the ARP book we looked at said the LS1 studs are M8x1.75......? plus it only had one thread pitch listed
They are definitely m8x1.25. Think standards....m12 would be 1.75 pitch.
But i was pretty sure M8 or M12 would refer to the diameter of the shank on the bolt, where the 1.25 or 1.75 would be the thread pitch tho right?
You're exactly right…I don't see where the questionable response comes into play lol. Buy the ARP LS1 Stud kit. 100 % they will fit.
628sx: (2011-08-20 00:58:52)
It just seemed like you said something different. but the ARP set was $180 at lordco. that pic is wut i bought. stock LS1 bolts. hope they work
300zxturboftw: (2011-08-20 01:37:40)
Pretty sure I bought these:
http://paceperformance.com/i-6488800-ar … ty-12.html
Although I see wher eyou get the 1.75 pitch from. I would call them to confirm its 1.25, which is probably is.
sgtpepper67: (2011-08-20 02:52:09)
As long as they are the correct pitch they should work. Unless there's a limit to the length, if there is I don't know what it is. Another user here suggested using blue loctite on the exhaust studs by the way. Might be a good idea to use it on those bolt you have. Unless maybe if you will be removing them repeatedly.
628sx: (2011-08-20 09:18:58)
nah, they have almost an inch of factory thread lock on them already, should be good
Augustus Maximus: (2011-08-21 16:55:28)
http://bebrs.pie-dabas.net/Webs/Terrano … a_tapa.pdf
So what's up with this.
NissanEgg: (2011-08-21 17:12:22)
That's the TSB telling you there is updated studs for the VG30. That only applies to VG's with 8mm studs.
628sx: (2011-08-21 17:28:40)
Also seems like a Nissan saying "You can only use OUR bolts." "So come buy them here."
michaelp: (2011-08-21 17:29:23)
Which is every SOHC VG except the ones with 10mm…which is VG33.
628sx: (2011-08-21 17:32:16)
But i'm tryin them today, so i'll post details.
system6: (2011-08-21 18:29:29)
Just to clear up the confusion from earlier the overall length is 1.75" that is where the 175 is coming from not the pitch.
628sx: (2011-08-21 21:04:22)
OOOOHHHH lol, yeah that was my confusion. thanx.
628sx: (2011-08-21 21:07:27)
Oh EFFF! i think they're 1.50 for length
628sx: (2011-08-21 21:58:12)
this is not going well, all 3 heat shield bolts i tried to take off have broken… does everything have to break when i try to fix it
DeleriousZ: (2011-08-22 00:51:26)
yup. use tons of penetrating lube and even heat to attack those bolts. also, don't just try and twist the bolts off either. impact is almost always better than straight torsion in breaking loose rusted bolts/nuts.
300zxturboftw: (2011-08-22 02:26:46)
I was messing with the header studs today and it seems to be a pitch very close to 1.25. One I had to retap to m8x1.25 and it dug into the metal on the heads when re-inserted but held fine. When I checked the other studs with a m8x1.25 die it would not go through it as the one I re-taped with. Pitches look almost identical next to each other so I don't know.
628sx: (2011-08-22 04:58:46)
So turns out the bolts will work fine. dont think i'll get any heat shields back on tho… broke 5 of 5 bolts so far.. All of the studs came out easily tho. In fact some were even already loose :S but im held up for the night with the EGR fitting, damn near welded to the mani.
Careless: (2011-08-22 06:27:52)
if you can tack weld 6mm nuts onto where the bolts broke on the manifold, you can put the heatshields back on :-)
628sx: (2011-08-22 06:40:18)
[quote]Careless wrote:
So turns out the bolts will work fine. dont think i'll get any heat shields back on tho… broke 5 of 5 bolts so far.. All of the studs came out easily tho. In fact some were even already loose :S but im held up for the night with the EGR fitting, damn near welded to the mani.
if you can tack weld 6mm nuts onto where the bolts broke on the manifold, you can put the heatshields back on :-)
not a bad idea lol
james: (2011-08-22 09:28:35)
[quote]michaelp wrote:
That's the TSB telling you there is updated studs for the VG30. That only applies to VG's with 8mm studs.
Which is every SOHC VG except the ones with 10mm…which is VG33.
But you CAN definitly drill and tap your regular old VG30 for 10mm Studs just fine, I got the cylinder head shop to do mine with high quality ARP style M10 studs and they have been great.
628sx: (2011-08-22 23:10:41)
[archived image: biggrin.png] [archived image: biggrin.png] [archived image: biggrin.png] totally awesome.... I ended up cutting the EGR tube.. and breaking it… so now i can't pinch it off… Also, on the collector of the passenger side mani, the bottom stud has a washer that's too big wedged in there holding it on. Also also… the 1 stud that was broken, and caused my leak in the first place, is broken off flush with the head YAY! F*ck me.. plus there was a bunch of effin red silicone all over the middle exhaust port and gasket.. why the F would anyone slather a bunch of silicone on there?
628sx: (2011-08-23 02:17:28)
So now, I'm getting my dad's right angle drill in the morning, to fix it all up. but when i pulled the intake pipping off the turbo i found zero shaft play!! 8 to 10 lbs here i come!
86nissanZ: (2011-08-23 03:01:41)
I would try the nut and weld trick before id drill in to the head! Just weld a nut to the stud and most of the time it come right out!
628sx: (2011-08-23 04:08:18)
I would but it's broken off about an 8th of an inch inside the head [archived image: biggrin.png]
86nissanZ: (2011-08-23 15:04:27)
Theres a good chance it will still work better then drilling!
628sx: (2011-08-23 17:15:40)
Yeah it might be better than drilling, but considering i don't have a ride, access to a welder, or anyone close with a welder, i'll just drill. Easy outs work pretty damn well.
85NA2T: (2011-08-23 17:59:11)
lol how is that supposed to work when the stud is broken INSIDE the hole?
Careless: (2011-08-23 18:11:13)
Rent an ARC WELDER (15 bucks for the day).
Buy a 3/16 electrode, like a high nickel or a stainless one.
Give it a zap in the hole.
Then grab the electrode and turn it once it cools down.
use a piece of vacuum hose and put the electrode through it if you don't want to hit the threads. so what if it melts in there. it will just come out when you remove the bolt.
628sx: (2011-08-23 18:56:10)
Yeah..... Well, i'm still drilling it.. But in the mean time on the turbo side… Fucking 1 was already broken and i just broke another. Plus as u probably already know with out unbolting the turbo the mani only falls about 2 inches away from the block… this causes a problem for either drilling or welding… FUCK! 3 hour job is turning into 3 days.... or weeks.. really fast
628sx: (2011-08-24 00:46:45)
The drilling worked great for the passenger side, got the stud out. Now i have at least 2 on the drivers side, after i find the easiest way to get the mani off the turbo :S
628sx: (2011-08-24 01:41:42)
this seems impossible… how the f*ck do people get at these nuts????????
628sx: (2011-08-24 02:29:54)
any help? There are some washers with tabs blocking me from getting anything on the nuts.. this is stupid as hell
DeleriousZ: (2011-08-24 05:34:42)
unbolt the engine mounts and raise it up slightly, gives you much better access to them.
628sx: (2011-08-24 07:58:19)
Yeah that will work. Now how can i safely accomplish this with minimal expense, and only a floor jack on an angled driveway. I mean i have wheel chalks but… i dunno…
628sx: (2011-08-25 19:25:26)
Drilled one out on the passenger side, worked great. But, of course, on the driver side, after FINALLY getting th mani off, i find out that the 2 broken studs are closest to the firewall… And the brake master is in the way of drilling them… WHY THE F*CK DOES THIS HAPPEN
87zxturbo: (2011-08-25 19:27:30)
Murphys law......
Careless: (2011-08-25 19:31:58)
so just unbolt the brake master cylinder, unbolt the clip that holds the lines to the firewall, and use a bungee cord to hold it out of the way. You can move it a good bit out of the way without permanently bending the lines or doing any damage. it's two bolts and a cotter pin on the inside of the car.
628sx: (2011-08-25 19:40:56)
Yeah i know, i just dont wanna..... but i guess i haveta....
628sx: (2011-08-25 19:43:20)
F*ck murphy, the the law of " I cant really see the bolts… i'll just tighten a little more and that should be good… SNAP SNAP… awe f*ck it the next guy will deal with them"
DeleriousZ: (2011-08-25 19:51:11)
I bet you wish you went with the sep as studs now eh??
628sx: (2011-08-25 20:04:12)
sep?
DeleriousZ: (2011-08-25 21:10:31)
Ss, Damn autocorrect.
628sx: (2011-08-25 21:35:46)
No, Im talking about the stock studs breaking. I have LS1 studs ready to go in. But it just seems like alot of things on this car the previous owners have neglected. And it's always the hardest ones to get at that they don't fix. People who want to own a car to drive their asses around EVERYDAY should never neglect the condition of something they rely on so heavily. It just pisses me off i guess
Careless: (2011-08-25 23:08:41)
can't believe you said that since you bought the car from someone who didn't want to drive it around everyday anymore. That's exactly why you have it, isn't it? what did you expect? its probably older than you!
you probably got it for a "good price" right? come on. don't bitch about it, just get it done and move on to the next broken thing. once you replace just about everything once or twice, you'll be to about where most of use 2+ year veterans are. :nanan?re
NissanXRMA: (2011-08-25 23:18:29)
I had the hardest time getting the two nuts on the back side of the manifold that bolt to the turbo. don't get me started on those tabs.
628sx: (2011-08-26 02:48:20)
Oh im getting started… fucking after all of that tab bullshit now i cant get the drill to center on the studs SO STUPID… NISSAN = FAIL.. I'm sorry but the big N has gone down a couple of notches in my book. freeking retarded.
628sx: (2011-08-26 02:53:51)
now i either have to rent a welder or find a triangle grinder stone or something to grind down the peak that has formed in the center of the stud..... gay… this better be freeking worth it
Gregmatic: (2011-08-26 03:29:22)
I just tried the welding trick on a head off of the car. Guess what: it didn't work. I cleaned everything up nice with a mild grit and then acetone'd everything up. Held the nut in place, welded a nice puddle to get it together. Pop, snaps right off every time. Tried like 5 or 6 times. Just thought you would like to know…
Careless: (2011-08-26 03:58:48)
try an arc welder with 1/8 or 3/16 high nickel or stainless rod at a fairly high heat and hold it there for a second or two. then let it cool down for an hour or two and turn the rod.
my uncle has been repairing broken manifold studs on tractors and heavy duty landscaping equipment for 25+ years and says this is the only way he bothers doing it now.
left hand bits break.
ez-outs break or slip, then you cant size up anymore.
welding with mig barely works.
the heat from the weld right onto the bolt that causes the bolt to expand and breaks the bond. you may kill some threads in the process but you can always retap and there is more than enough thread to hold a new stud on anyway.
Gregmatic: (2011-08-26 04:39:01)
yea all I've got is a MIG at that shop and a TIG at home, no arcy-sparky. Welp, it is my machinists problem now.
Rustspecs13: (2011-08-26 04:45:16)
huh, Ive done it a few times with a super cheap crappy mig on my KA's. I did use bolts and weld around the perimeter of the bottom but I was told nuts work better. Maybe just weld right on the broken stud with nothing in the way and then weld the nut to the new material? IDK its never failed me.
~Alex
628sx: (2011-08-26 08:56:45)
[quote]Careless wrote:
People who want to own a car to drive their asses around EVERYDAY should never neglect the condition of something they rely on so heavily. It just pisses me off i guess
can't believe you said that since you bought the car from someone who didn't want to drive it around everyday anymore. That's exactly why you have it, isn't it? what did you expect? its probably older than you!
you probably got it for a "good price" right? come on. don't bitch about it, just get it done and move on to the next broken thing. once you replace just about everything once or twice, you'll be to about where most of use 2+ year veterans are. :nanan?re
Yup i got it for free, Christmas present from the GF, and yes it's 7 years older than me. But when a previous owner doesn't fix things properly cause it's to hard it pisses me off
michaelp: (2011-08-26 13:31:30)
What broken studs? My Z31s dont have any (anymore). :nanan?re
628sx: (2011-08-26 18:12:41)
Yeah, neither will I as soon as i get these ones out [archived image: frown.png]
RocklinMike300zx: (2011-08-26 18:40:57)
I guess I should go ahead and upgrade to LS6 bolts or the ARP studs while I have the engine out, huh?
628sx: (2011-08-26 19:36:33)
YES. the LS6 ones i got are the same thing as stock LS1 bolts so my local gm dealer lists them under LS6. But ya saves alot of trouble
300zxturboftw: (2011-08-27 01:53:56)
When I pulled my engine originally I had 0 broken studs. The engine had 63k miles too though :twisted:
628sx: (2011-08-27 02:40:16)
I broke the easy out inside the hole.... I got a de-burring tool and finally got a center good enough to drill than got a perfect hole for an easy out… Needless to say I went and bought a better extractor set and better drill bit to drill out the broken one tomorrow [archived image: frown.png] gotta go to work till 3am now. I also work 11 am to 8 pm saturday, so i cant work on it till 8 [archived image: frown.png] [archived image: frown.png]
ZFast88Z: (2011-08-27 20:12:13)
Are you using left or right hand drill bits?
628sx: (2011-08-28 11:29:01)
Well, I don't about your drill bits, but I can use mine in either hand. Lol. But I'm using regular old clockwise cutting bits. Only problem is that now instead of drilling into a steel stud, I have to drill into the hardened steel of the stud extractor (Although the stud extractor bites counter clockwise).
628sx: (2011-08-29 23:18:26)
Nothing is working, Not even starting to drill a larger hole to re-tap for a larger bolt is getting this bit out… [archived image: frown.png]
RocklinMike300zx: (2011-08-30 00:57:57)
Where is it stuck? Seems it would be more worth it to just buy a new manifold or a new cylinder head on that side if you are having that much trouble.
628sx: (2011-08-30 02:10:14)
Um not really. It's on the drivers side, back exhaust port. But if that head happens to come off, then that stud is coming out. It will cost enough having to replace EVERYTHING associated with pulling the head anyway. This is gay…
Augustus Maximus: (2011-08-30 19:40:20)
Why not use these. Way cheaper than ARP and they don't break.
http://www.courtesyparts.com/14004a-stu … 53844.html
And other online Nissan sites have it for as little as $2.33
628sx: (2011-08-31 08:30:58)
Ya, ship a set of those to me and it'll still cost me $45 and 2 weeks.
628sx: (2011-08-31 08:34:16)
So no further help eh? I've dulled 3 bits (at least twice over), shattered one, busted my de-burring tool, snapped an easy out, and mangled all my center punches… it's about to cost as much in tools as taking the heads off would cost me
Careless: (2011-08-31 09:52:29)
did you pull the motor? you could raise the motor using a cherry picker by taking the hood off and pulling the motor up and you might have gained adequate clearance to do the job better.
i was in your shoes when I first got my car and I ended up taking the motor apart because of it and then a fuckton of other things happened because of that.
looking back, if I would have raised the motor I'd probably be way ahead of where I am with my car now.
Rustspecs13: (2011-08-31 12:19:08)
Sorry the welding trick has always worked for me. And I think I'm pulling my motor this weekend to fix my broken studs and do other things.
628sx: (2011-08-31 17:34:14)
hrmmm… those suggestions need to be tried!!
Returned Z31 Lover: (2014-03-29 23:58:21)
Any year ls1 studs will work? Just tell the guy at the counter ls1 studs?