Forums/Z31P/z31-performance-upgrade-forums engine-mechanical-aa/The Long-Awaited (by me at least) NA build thread
Imported from Z31Performance.com Forums{{#if:benz-tech| — original post by benz-tech}}{{#if:2010-07-14 04:38:13|, posted 2010-07-14 04:38:13}}{{#if:46| · 46 post{{#ifeq:46|1||s}}}}{{#if:/Z31performance_archive/forum/z31-performance-upgrade-forums/engine-mechanical-aa/11234-the-long-awaited-by-me-at-least-na-build-thread.html|
Local archive: view archived thread on dev.z31library.com}}
benz-tech: (2010-07-14 04:38:13)
My engine is in one piece again!! Trans is even bolted up. Here's a list of some of the specs:
Top to bottom.
Gutted 200sx intake- emissions removed, 60mm T/B
Ported lower intake.
Isky 280deg .485" cams. Morgan's (or knock-offs) cam gears set at 0* now
Ported 85e heads, SS valves JWT springs.
260cc injectors, 7300rpm rev limit. Stock NA tune at present.
10.8:1 BRC pistons. Lightened to 380g (they were 395 and could be lightened another 20g or so but I dont have an end mill) All balanced to within 1g by machinist. OEM rings.
Eagle rods 585g
Entire rotating assy balanced
Nissan OE graded bearings
87 turbo A/T oil pump. ported. Radiused corners of entire oiling system.
5qt gated oil pan and moded p/u
Fidanza flywheel and Centerforce dual-friction clutch
Hand-made, tig-welded equal-length, step-up headers. By Jeff at Teamthump $$$
Hybrid 71B/71C close-ratio transmission. 3.0, 1.8, 1.3, 1.0 .77
Thats about all I can think of at the moment. Now the pics:
edit: a link to a few head pictures. I forgot I started a build thread a while back. Its been that long!
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=17731
benz-tech: (2010-07-14 04:42:07)
[archived image: DSCF2980.jpg]
[archived image: DSCF2981.jpg]
[archived image: DSCF2982.jpg]
[archived image: DSCF2966.jpg]
[archived image: DSCF2969.jpg]
[archived image: DSCF2970.jpg]
[archived image: DSCF2972.jpg]
[archived image: DSCF2978.jpg]
[archived image: DSCF2983.jpg]
Guest: (2010-07-14 04:50:00)
What no turbo?
j/k I like the contrast between the valve covers and headers.
benz-tech: (2010-07-14 04:55:34)
No turbo. And I even preach turbo to the guys asking for more power from their NA cars.
thanks, I had to take pics of the headers now since its ceramic PAINT. $8.00 and 10 minutes of glory, or at least untill it burns off.
Careless: (2010-07-14 04:59:53)
nice stepped-tubes. a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittle close to the trans, but i'm sure it will work out.
Grr: (2010-07-14 05:01:15)
man that is awesome, i hope you can find a lightweight pulley for the front sometime. would probably be a good addition
Careless: (2010-07-14 05:01:23)
also- not comfy with using morgan's after seeing them collapse- but if it works for you! bonus.
NissanXRMA: (2010-07-14 05:01:35)
Bet it's gonna sound amazing.
benz-tech: (2010-07-14 05:03:36)
I removed the big chunk of metal used to dampen before it got balanced. Its much lighter than it looks.
benz-tech: (2010-07-14 05:06:04)
Headers stick out a bit further. I just set them on for now. Installing this into a 510 involves a dance of headers and an engine being tilted in at 80 degrees or so. Lotsa fun but at least I have the shop and tools to do it in.
Careless: (2010-07-14 05:15:39)
now all you need is butter's flocked z31 dash in your 510 and your valve covers will match your dash board. LOL.
looks great. low key and nice :-)
dont expect that ceramikote paint to stay on long. it's not that tolerable to weathering.
Neil86t: (2010-07-14 05:43:22)
I hope that pile of sunken treasure makes more HP than my bolt on 230k tired motor.
a22770: (2010-07-14 06:32:48)
The build looks great! What are the tube sizes, lengths, collector sizes?
ZFast88Z: (2010-07-14 11:37:07)
Ignoring the nice NA buildup for a second to say, I absolutely love Mercedes Benz workshops.
DeleriousZ: (2010-07-14 16:19:41)
Interesting choice on the 10.8:1 pistons, keeping the compression low-ish for reliable daily driving as well or?
michaelp: (2010-07-14 16:33:03)
That, and whats a 510 weigh? 2000lbs? If that?
Russ84na: (2010-07-14 23:09:01)
Very nice. How long before you get to run it?
benz-tech: (2010-07-15 04:30:18)
Yeah. Clean, brite and freaking AIR-CONDITIONED!!!!!!!!!! Outside temp 100+, inside temp 75
No plans to run it on the bottle. At least for now.
Hope to drop it in thursday night. I am going on vacation for a week, It will be August before it runs.
benz-tech: (2010-07-15 04:42:22)
I picked 10.8:1 for a few reasons:
I had an L23 with somwhere around 11-12:1 that pinged like a mother and I just got sick of it.
California gas is crap.
It is a daily driver, although i do have the POS FX-16 to commute in now.
I did the math for the compression calculation. It could be wrong. Its an 11cc dome. I figured if I erred in calculation, I'd rather err on the conservative side.
VG30 combustion chamber shapes are less than ideal.
I bought the pistons before the Shell station down the street from my house started carrying E85.
benz-tech: (2010-07-15 04:45:23)
I think the length was around 32" could be wrong though. Tubes are 1.5", 1.625" (1 5/8"?) and 1.75"
a22770: (2010-07-15 05:14:41)
That should work perfect for 6100 rpm hp peak, assuming you are in the 260 hp range ( +/- 10hp).
vince: (2010-07-15 05:37:43)
that looks sweet but be careful you dont burn your fingers on the header when you change your oil filter :-)
Careless: (2010-07-15 06:59:49)
i doubt he'll be changing oil filters with the engine hot enough to do that, and mechanics gloves and a filter wrench make it a lot easier anyway :P
Mitchd03: (2010-07-15 13:18:52)
[quote]Careless wrote:
that looks sweet but be careful you dont burn your fingers on the header when you change your oil filter :-)
i doubt he'll be changing oil filters with the engine hot enough to do that, and mechanics gloves and a filter wrench make it a lot easier anyway :P
These things FTW.
[archived image: Worlds-Best-Oil-Filter-Wrench.jpg]
Only problem is I need a smaller one to aid in servicing the tiny tiny hyundai oil filters at work, most of the time I just use these:
[archived image: pliers.jpg]
Careless: (2010-07-15 13:52:48)
look at the shot-glass sized Micra/March K10 filter, since we're Nissan based here.
benz-tech… you have pics of your 510?
benz-tech: (2010-07-16 11:53:43)
There is a good chance that I've been changing oil filters longer than you've been alive. Thanks for the advice, though. :-D
The only pictures I have are on this site and on a memory stick somewhere. I'll have to take a few once its running again. I have different wheels on it now
http://www.510garage.com/photos/display … 227&pos=75
http://www.510garage.com/photos/display … 227&pos=74
Careless: (2010-07-16 15:32:54)
you.... you're the guy.
you bought BART from Ronnie T? :snif
benz-tech: (2010-07-17 01:44:29)
I don't believe so. This car was originally from Bend Or. None of the previous 3 owners is named Ronnie. Same engine bay pictured on teamthump.com- it was 90's splatter paint at the time. Had to change that!
james: (2010-07-17 04:16:06)
Loving your Headers very nice work,
I have shared your pain in regard to putting in large engine into a cramped engine bay,
I installed a 1UZ-FE Lexus V8 into an e30 BMW for a buddy of mine, Tail shaft of the gearbox was scraping the concrete floor and the engine hoist was scraping along the roof. Did it all on my own though.
Any pics of what its going into ?
Keep up the good work.
Careless: (2010-07-17 08:09:07)
Ah nevermind. Almost identical car.
Funny enough, also from Oregon. LOL.
michaelp: (2010-07-18 02:52:33)
[quote]Mitchd03 wrote: [quote=Careless]
that looks sweet but be careful you dont burn your fingers on the header when you change your oil filter :-)
i doubt he'll be changing oil filters with the engine hot enough to do that, and mechanics gloves and a filter wrench make it a lot easier anyway :P
These things FTW.
[archived image: Worlds-Best-Oil-Filter-Wrench.jpg]
Only problem is I need a smaller one to aid in servicing the tiny tiny hyundai oil filters at work, most of the time I just use these:
[archived image: pliers.jpg]
No oil filter should be tight enough where you can't get it off by hand, unless it hasnt been changed in 20 years.
Andrevas: (2010-07-18 04:23:49)
that might be, but you can't depend on that when you work on other people's cars. having a tool that works well loosening filters is a must in the industry. personally this from Harbor Frieght works great: http://www.harborfreight.com/2-inch-to- … 36778.html
Careless: (2010-07-18 04:24:30)
Someone clean up the oil filter garbage in this thread. (sorry to be a contributor).
cjr198car: (2010-07-24 21:15:38)
build looks great!
sonicz31: (2010-07-27 03:49:39)
This motor makes me hungry
roastin300: (2010-07-28 03:03:13)
When will it be installed with some results? I'm curious how it performs, dyno numbers, etc.
benz-tech: (2010-07-30 05:13:04)
It is now sitting in the car. I went on vacation so I haven't had time. Looking to start up again this weekend or next. I have several issues to deal with including- but not limited to:
lengthening the driveshaft,
removing the injector resistors,
getting my damn oil pan to clear the crossmember,
mounting the new transmission to non-existant holes in the tunnel, and setting driveline angle,
all in addition to the normal work of installing an engine. At least there was a vg in the hole before I embarked on the rebuild, otherwise this would be more project than I have time for.
More pics to follow
MrKaira: (2010-08-01 11:36:40)
Awesome! Can't wait to see what kind of power you are making.
benz-tech: (2010-08-19 05:41:54)
Update:
I've had it in the car running for 2 days now and have been ironing out a few bugs. A few first impressions are 1) the starter works WAY harder to light up an 11:1 engine - and thats at 13* at 1,000 rpm base timing. (idle switch closed). Non-projected tip plugs I've heard are worth about -2deg of timing also.
2) I got ALL the "low-end" (well, from 2,500-3,500rpm) torque back that i lost with the big cams, and maybe a bit more. There is still nothing below 2,500.
3) Above 3500- 5000 it pulls much harder. I'm not revving it past that for now and its only been there 3 times. No pinging yet, and its hard to tell if my timing setting is conservative or not because of its refusal to idle below 900rpm. no smoking or oil leaks either.
4) the new trans gearing lessens the rpm drop during the 1-2 shift. Lovin that.
5) the pistons are a bit noisey when cold- louder than i'd like them to be, but they quiet down at operating temp. I'm glad I didn't put them at the .004" to .005" that BRC suggested.
6) the lighter rotating mass + high compression + closer gear ratios makes shifting quickly a requirement. I'm glad my used gearbox is up to the task…lucky.
7) oil pressure is a solid 70psi but does drop to 25 at a hot idle. I cant say that i'm thrilled with that. thats with straight 30 break-in oil that will be coming out within the next 50 miles.
I know the bearing clearances are good, mic-measured and then double checked with plasti-gauge, just in case. The turbo oil pump was used but I inspected it closely. I'll try to get a ride along vid and pictures of the complete engine bay soon. One huge surprise is that the header paint has not burned off. They still look great. I fully expected them look good for 10 minutes and then peel. 'course its only been 40 miles
Careless: (2010-08-19 06:09:34)
25psi hot at idle is more than what the manual calls for. you're fine.
as for the starter… wondering if anyone makes a better start for these motors. there has to be.
benz-tech: (2010-08-19 06:13:25)
The starter works fine but you can tell its laboring to spin everything. No real need for stronger starters in this application. There's like what 4 of us that are running higher than stock compression?
Careless: (2010-08-19 06:23:17)
just sayin it might be worth looking out for in case the current one craps out.
why replace with something that's laboring when it could be effortless [archived image: smile.png]
benz-tech: (2010-12-25 19:12:42)
500 miles on the clock, got the correct injectors in. It runs fantastic. Its first trip to 6500rpm yesterday, and its still pullin' hard. My 'new' oil pan and pickup work perfectly, I can stand on the brake pedal and the pressure remains a constant 70 psi. It now overpowers 1st gear at any RPM. before I could feather it 'till about 3k and bury the throttle w/ a little wheel spin. Now, even with the taller 1st, it will roast 'em everywhere. A short shift into 2nd and it tachs that gear also. It does feel like 30hp more but I look forward to some dyno time. edit: rolled on 2nd gear on a smooth flat dry road, and had tons of wheel spin. OK so RT615's suck in the cold, but it never did that before.
Speedo is dead accurate now, yay.
Gusisboosted: (2018-11-02 04:45:34)
nice to find these old threads will help with the build
Reds89: (2018-11-08 07:37:24)
nice to find these old threads will help with the build
The headers at the top of the post look nice. Does anyone know why the Doug Thorley headers won't fit the VG30E?
http://www.dougthorleyheaders.com/nissan--infiniti&458
GT2: (2018-12-07 00:19:30)
I bought a set of ebay headers for a z31.
Thier not the highest quality headers in the universe, but they did have really nice thick flanges,
I modified them and put better quality collectors on them,