Forums/Z31P/z31-performance-upgrade-forums engine-management/Megasquirt Virgin, question thread.
Imported from Z31Performance.com Forums{{#if:slammedcoupe| — original post by slammedcoupe}}{{#if:2014-08-17 21:14:49|, posted 2014-08-17 21:14:49}}{{#if:36| · 36 post{{#ifeq:36|1||s}}}}{{#if:/Z31performance_archive/forum/z31-performance-upgrade-forums/engine-management/24176-megasquirt-virgin-question-thread.html|
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slammedcoupe: (2014-08-17 21:14:49)
Hey guys!
im looking to MegaSquirt my 86T soon, now im looking into the MS2 and MS3 systems.
Im shooting for 400+ whp stock block, mod list:
HE341cw (basically an hy35)
Maxima intake
intercooler
Walbro 255
550cc or 600cc inj (haven't decided yet)
relocation manifold/pipe
Possibly: (depending on budget)
satan/tubular manifolds
Cams/head work
Now, what I am wondering.. how hard is it to setup a MS2 or 3 system?
I have a lot of experience in automotive electrical, wiring in new components etc, but I have never installed or setup a standalone engine management system.
im planning on completely removing the engine bay wiring harness for the engine and running a new harness. does the Z31 have an upper and lower harness like the S-13?
straight up looking to be spoon fed, I have searched my brains out(for months) and haven't got anywhere haha.
thanks,
Chris
youngfg: (2014-08-18 13:13:06)
Both of my race cars are running MS3's
You want the MS3 so you can datalog to an an SD card.
Also with the MS3 you can also get the MS3X card with gives you more inputs and outputs, so you can go sequential and do individual cylinder trims, traction control, boost control, flat shift, two step rev limit, ect.
If you are buying injectors new, I would try to get high impedance injectors, so it would be easier to go sequential if you want, other wise you can run low impedance with resistors.
Get the Diyautotune trigger wheel for the distibutor, that's what I run, makes it easy to setup.
You will fire the coil directly from the MS, no igniter needed, you also won't need the MAF anymore.
You are on the right track of rewiring the engine, the easiest was is to add a GM style coolant temp sensor, air temp sensor, and run new injector wires.
A wideband O2 sensor is a must, hook it to the MS so it will get logged, no gauge is needed.
slammedcoupe: (2014-08-18 14:15:24)
Both of my race cars are running MS3's
You want the MS3 so you can datalog to an an SD card.
Also with the MS3 you can also get the MS3X card with gives you more inputs and outputs, so you can go sequential and do individual cylinder trims, traction control, boost control, flat shift, two step rev limit, ect.
If you are buying injectors new, I would try to get high impedance injectors, so it would be easier to go sequential if you want, other wise you can run low impedance with resistors.
Get the Diyautotune trigger wheel for the distibutor, that's what I run, makes it easy to setup.
You will fire the coil directly from the MS, no igniter needed, you also won't need the MAF anymore.
You are on the right track of rewiring the engine, the easiest was is to add a GM style coolant temp sensor, air temp sensor, and run new injector wires.
A wideband O2 sensor is a must, hook it to the MS so it will get logged, no gauge is needed.
thanks for the info! I do have a wideband, are you running a Distributor still?
I was looking into the GM coilpacks instead of a distrib.
im looking more toward the MS2 because of price point. but I may splurge on the MS3x.
youngfg: (2014-08-18 16:45:20)
I am still running the distributor.
I wouldn't bother with coil packs unless I could eliminate the distributor entirely, which would mean a trigger wheel on the crank.
If that's what your thinking then I would only go with the MS3 and the MS3X so you could run full sequential with COP ignition.
slammedcoupe: (2014-08-18 18:54:55)
so to run a dizzy still I have to change out the optical disc on the dizzy shaft?
COP would be nice but not needed. just thought It may be easier haha!
i would love to do MS3 but i don't think its in the budget this round. MS2 should suffice for my power goals and i have a line on a good used unit .
now for base maps.. anyone have a file for 440cc, hx35 and no cams?
youngfg: (2014-08-18 20:01:59)
Yes it's easiest to change the disc in the distributor to a pattern that works better with the MS.
The MS come with a base map that works for most engines.
You input the engine size, and injector size and required fuel is calculated for you.
You will have to set your load scale for the amount of boost you are going to run.
You look at the O2 data from the logs and tune from there.
The main thing your have to remember is than it's not plug and play, you can't just connect a few wires and run.
You will have to make sure each setting in the software is correct, and create the tune.
slammedcoupe: (2014-08-18 21:34:50)
cool! very good info!
thanks for the help I think I understand this all more now!
ozzyrulez: (2014-08-19 13:32:44)
While we are discussing MS, would it be possible to say, run the dizzy as the CAS but use individual coils for sequential?
slammedcoupe: (2014-08-19 14:08:08)
While we are discussing MS, would it be possible to say, run the dizzy as the CAS but use individual coils for sequential?
I thought about that, using the dizzy as a "dud" and running the trigger wheel setup off there.
but that may be v.2 for me!
youngfg: (2014-08-19 16:39:34)
You could do that. That's exactly what the DIYAutotune trigger disc in the distributor lets you do.
That would allow a stronger spark, but wouldn't eliminate the slop in the distributor gears.
slammedcoupe: (2014-08-19 19:21:34)
touché! I forgot to account for that issue
ozzyrulez: (2014-08-19 20:51:58)
So then that wouldn't be feasible for sequential. OK. I'm about to do mega squirt so I'm trying to preplan before I buy everything
youngfg: (2014-08-19 22:23:57)
Sequential really isn't a big deal. It helps with idle and part throttle emissions. At full throttle, and high rpms, the injectors stay open long enough they always will be spraying against a a closed valve some.
The main thing you need to plan for is how much boost you are going to run, the normal MAP sensor that comes with a MS is a 2.5 Bar sensor, that's good for about 22 psi of boost.
You can get up to a 4 bar sensor, good for up to 44 psi of boost. If you have low impedance injectors, I suggest you run resistors, that's what I use.
Get the GM temp sensors, you will have to enlarge the hole in the intake to a 3/8 npt for the coolant temp sensor. For the ACT you need a 3/8 npt in the air path after the turbo and intercooler.
ozzyrulez: (2014-08-20 02:05:21)
Yeah I'm already planning on the MAP Daddy upgrade as well as the knock sensor module. I haven't decided on new injectors yet. Are we able to eliminate the CHTS? I was figuring to put the IAT sensor in the IC pipe after the IC. Can it handle two IAT sensors? I'd like to have before the IC and after if possible.
slammedcoupe: (2014-08-20 16:28:30)
Are we able to eliminate the CHTS?
im curious about this too, I don't see any issues ditching it but a forsure yes would be nice [archived image: tongue.png]
now should I run 440cc or 600cc for the 400whp im looking for?
youngfg: (2014-08-20 16:46:28)
The coolant temp sensor will replace the CHTS.
ozzyrulez: (2014-08-20 20:00:11)
Alright good deal. I hope you don't mind me picking your brain. All this seems pretty daunting. I just want to make sure I do it right the first time.
slammedcoupe: (2014-08-20 20:53:43)
Alright good deal. I hope you don't mind me picking your brain. All this seems pretty daunting. I just want to make sure I do it right the first time.
go get your own thread :P
JK
thanks for all the help youngfg, you have enlightened me quite a bit! very appreciated!
youngfg: (2014-08-20 21:03:18)
No problem, I have all the tune files, they are for NA, but the basics will all be there.
slammedcoupe: (2014-08-20 21:52:19)
cool! im hoping to have my MS installed mid October when im back living near my car!
ozzyrulez: (2014-08-20 21:53:33)
go get your own thread :P
JK
thanks for all the help youngfg, you have enlightened me quite a bit! very appreciated!
Lol it looks like we are in about the same boat I just figured I'd expand on the questions you asked.
No problem, I have all the tune files, they are for NA, but the basics will all be there.
I was going to try and steal most of my baseline from my current Nistune tune but your could definitely come in handy.
slammedcoupe: (2014-08-21 12:52:45)
[QUOTE=ozzyrulez;363519]Lol it looks like we are in about the same boat I just figured I'd expand on the questions you asked.
its all good man! your questions helped me too haha!
Black 89Turbo: (2014-08-22 14:11:14)
You don't need to buy the New dizzy disk from DIY. Purchase, MS3/MS3x, A good relay board, a good fuse box, good wiring, ALL GM types sensors, HIGH impedance injectors. These things right here will make your life EASY.
slammedcoupe: (2014-08-22 17:51:21)
after removing the ecu/stock engine harness and building a new engine harness does everything interior wise work correctly?
or am I going to have to re wire everything?
youngfg: (2014-08-22 20:21:12)
The only thing the ECU interacts with is the tach, and just connects to the coil. You just need to make sure you hook that up. You can use the stock fuel pump relay and wiring.
ozzyrulez: (2014-08-22 21:46:58)
You don't need to buy the New dizzy disk from DIY. Purchase, MS3/MS3x, A good relay board, a good fuse box, good wiring, ALL GM types sensors, HIGH impedance injectors. These things right here will make your life EASY.
Any reason to not use their disk? I was going to get their wiring harness as well as all GM sensors. The relay board and fuse boxi haven't heard or seen mentioned. I assumed I'd be using the factory stuff. What do you recommend?
The only thing the ECU interacts with is the tach, and just connects to the coil. You just need to make sure you hook that up. You can use the stock fuel pump relay and wiring.
What about the speedo? I know my shiro has vss.
youngfg: (2014-08-22 22:37:04)
I think it's best to change the trigger disk.
The relay board I used on a car, I was not impressed with it. Just wire into the stock harness for the power, fuel pump, and distributor. I would run new wires for the injectors, and injector resistors if you use them, and the TPS and temp sensors.
I forgot you need to get a TPS off an automatic car, you need the one with the extra pigtail. The auto TPS is a normal sensor, not just a switch like the 5 speed cars have. You will need to run new wires for the TPS also.
You can run a MS without a TPS but it's just better to have it.
You can hook the VSS to the MS if you want to.
Then you use the speed to do things, like change the boost according to speed.
ozzyrulez: (2014-08-23 01:31:54)
Ok good I was wondering about the TPS sensor actually, do you wire into the main sensor or the pigtail? I was planning on pulling out the entire ECU harness and basically using factory wiring where needed for power and the fuel pump. I figured MS would be wired directly to the dizzy. Man, I'm starting to get scared of it and I haven't even start yet lol
Adam88SS: (2014-08-26 12:58:06)
Another thread jacking virgin here. I'm sitting on a MS2X system, still needs to be installed. Is there any good advantage to spending the 300+ to upgrade the board to MS3? I don't have a problem logging to a laptop. The intergrated wideband is nice, but how much of a pain is it to have 2 separate systems (Wideband and MS) when tuning? Does the MS3 offer an auto-tune option? Once its tuned, I don't plan to mess with it much, just want to have fun driving.
youngfg: (2014-08-26 13:37:41)
No MS that I know of has an integrated wideband controller, they all use an external controller like an LC-1, maybe the MS3Pro has one but I haven't checked.
They all have a "autotune" there is a table just like the VE table where you put in the desired AFR.
I have never used the autotune, I have always tuned the car manually then removed the wideband, until I make a change that requires tuning.
Axel kain: (2014-08-26 14:59:36)
I really dont get all the hype of the LC-1, as far as im concerned it's a PITA to use. plus the o2's dont last for crap (as per my tuner)
youngfg: (2014-08-26 15:05:44)
I am with you there on the LC-1, it think I am going to try a 14point7.com wideband next, the owner seems to know his stuff.
ozzyrulez: (2014-08-26 17:09:26)
my LC-1 has been working for 5+ years now.
Axel kain: (2014-08-26 19:32:56)
Youre incredibly lucky then. software is lacking, and the gauge on the current system I have been messing with will not communicate with the LC-1, thankfully after about 10 tries to communicate with the laptop it did, so I know the system works, just no response from the gauge. :-l
I have had nothing but GREAT experience with Zeitronix, software is good, it consults with Nistune (which suits me, and my customers), and the support parts, like the mid size display for AFR, and pressures etc, or the "Tweeker" screen for custom installs (have it in the digi-dash).
Whatever works is the important thing, both of these are better hardware than Prosport's I'd say…
onefast87: (2014-09-23 18:45:57)
It's quite easy to get a vg going with a megasquirt.
Im using the MS2 3.57 in my 88T, 500cc inj, hy35 on 20psi, LC1 using the autotune feature( worth every dollar) i basically pulled all the engine bay wiring, then ran 3 new relays and a independant fuse panel just for the MS.Im using the factory trigger wheel. I cut the pigtails for the tps and cas for easy wiring.everything works normally except for you must wire the tach and the single wire for your dash temp gauge.
there are some diagrams online that can help with the wiring. if you need help with your settings please let me know.
nismopu: (2014-09-25 19:25:12)
It's quite easy to get a vg going with a megasquirt.
Im using the MS2 3.57 in my 88T, 500cc inj, hy35 on 20psi, LC1 using the autotune feature( worth every dollar) i basically pulled all the engine bay wiring, then ran 3 new relays and a independant fuse panel just for the MS.Im using the factory trigger wheel. I cut the pigtails for the tps and cas for easy wiring.everything works normally except for you must wire the tach and the single wire for your dash temp gauge.
there are some diagrams online that can help with the wiring. if you need help with your settings please let me know.
This is exactly how install should go. It cleans up the engine bay alot!