Forums/Z31P/z31-performance-upgrade-forums driveline-aa/30a Internals
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300zxturboftw: (2013-08-27 20:15:11)
I want to see if any of you have come across upgraded internals for the 30a. I assume at the power levels I will be making mine will probably kill itself in short order. What power have you seen these hold? Over 500 reliably? I believe z32 internals are near the same as 30a as well, but I'm sure they have to have upgraded internals available.
shromy: (2013-08-27 20:21:37)
BTW they tend to hold up to 500 tq fine if in good shape to start. 600+ is when your going to start having issues. 3rd tends to be the first to rip teeth, sometimes not even above 400 tq. IIRC it is said that 3rd in the z32 trans has been redesigned and should be a direct swap.
300zxturboftw: (2013-08-27 20:55:43)
Oh, fuck my wallet. I remember seeing the PPG gear sets now. Probably will stick to a nice genuine rebuild once it goes out then maybe think about the next time it breaks to do a PPG set-up.
DeleriousZ: (2013-08-27 21:04:45)
PPG straight cut 1-3, helical 4/5. = yes plz.
shromy: (2013-08-27 21:37:18)
Wouldnt have been so bad when the american dollar was worth a fuck. IIRC my Nistune cost me like 340 direct from matt now i think your right at about 600 for the board etc. If I remember there are other cheaper(relative term here) sets out there as well. Ill have to go through my stockpile of info collected over the years.
300zxturboftw: (2013-08-28 00:07:23)
Straight cut gears would be nice, would be so loud in car but so worth it.
NissanEgg: (2013-08-28 00:18:15)
Any time you order parts for the Z31 30A internals, 90% of them are superseded to Z32 30A parts.
Careless: (2013-08-28 00:45:34)
no one cared to mention how much regular maintenance needs to be done to a straight cut box? i'm absolutely positively certain you will not have the money to make a PPG gear set worth installing. Which is why not many people install them, and instead, blow up transmissions because they will be cheaper for the next 10 years of car ownership rather than a single PPG gear set.
A race car gear set in a car that isn't maintained like a race car is going to cost triple the buy-in price with installation in like 3 years. A race car that is maintained regularly- you're looking at double the initial cost. So it's still more than just the cost of the gear set + installation in less than 5 years.
If you want your gearbox to last longer, go with a triple-plated clutch rather than a harsh single disc. There are RB25's with 500-600hp that are still using original 30A boxes. The ones that blow them up are often ones with very aggressive single disc clutches. Which is why OS Giken makes a triple plated clutch pack and a gear set that is a much better alternative to PPG for a casual race car.
300zxturboftw: (2013-08-28 02:34:57)
I hear ya on the double/tripple clutch. They are worth it, but I wanted a single disk to try out first. That might be something I add if the transmission decides to shit on me, with my luck will probably be within the first month of driving the car.
And you just have to be more regular about changing the fluid with the straight cuts. I know some people who run straight cut gears and don't see any issues with casually driven cars. They are worth the money. Even the ralispec gearset I have in the subaru is 100 % worth it. Upgrading to stronger sets is always more practical than blowing up stock transmissions. Practical also means more expensive.
aceman85turbo: (2013-08-28 03:14:44)
im pretty sure you could do a t56 or tr6060 for less and get more
nismopu: (2013-08-28 06:36:04)
What is up with the rumor mill on the z33 tranny being stronger than the 30a? Anybody else been hearing this??
Chrisw_2003: (2013-08-28 07:57:13)
no, I always heard that the first couple years of the Z33 tranny was made of paper and to stay away from them.
G-E: (2013-08-28 08:39:58)
The z33 trannies are made for smooth shifting and lightweight internals, they are not beefy truck transmissions like the old '30a that can handle torques
300zxturboftw: (2013-08-28 12:02:17)
Had a buddy with a 600+ rwhp 350z. Ge was more scared of the transmission than anything
Tempestas: (2013-08-28 13:43:53)
'
The issue with early z33 trans are the syncros. I have a 03 350z. They started with 3 piece syncro for second gear, and standard syncro for 3rd and 4th… I think they added 3 piece to 3rd, then finally to 4th. I can't remember exactly the changes, but there were a lot of them from 03-05 in the syncro department. My 350z had 60k on it when I bought it, gearbox was perfect. The second or third time I tracked it 3rd gear syncro just died. It would grind no matter how slow or easy you tried to engage it. I tore it down and replaced the one syncro, just to see how it would go. 3rd is better, but still grinds from time to time, 4th has started to act up. The weird thing is it seems like they got the specs off or something. The third gear syncro I replaced was obviously worn in it's engagement cone area. The new one, however, still wasn't really spec, it fit like a worn syncro. It's like the syncro ring is made too big, or the gear cone is too small. My gear cone had no visible wear… Keep in mind second gear takes the most abuse, but with it's 3 piece syncro, it has never gave me an ounce of trouble. If you search, you can find the case stamping to get the best trans, its like the ones made 07/04+ So, 05-06 have the good syncros. 07 has a different bolt pattern for the HR, but should be identical internally. I think you can just swap the front case.
I can't speak to the power they hold, but i have rebuilt just about every nissan manual trans, and I would say it looks beefy, but maybe not quite as beefy as the 30a
FlawleZ: (2013-08-28 15:07:59)
Are we talking syncos going or just straight ripping teeth off gears? Syncros failing don't realy count speaking towards the transmissions ability to hold an amount of power. These fail on stock cars with use over time. There are Z32s that have made 1000rwhp on the 30A. For how long? I wouldn't know. But its entirely unfair to judge the strength of the transmission just because you make 400HP and your 3rd or 4th gear synco grinds after 200K miles of abuse.
Tempestas: (2013-08-28 16:07:31)
Which is why my retort to the statement that they are made out of paper, was that the issues are syncro related. I think the 30a syncros are kinda shitty… but my 03 350z totally eating the syncros at 60k with 287HP doing some track days, along with all the thousands of warranty claims and redesigns goes to show that the early trans had a real issue, but it was not strength. So… again. I have tore into the FS6R31A, but not beat on one. I would rate it at as strong as, or slightly less strong as the F/RS5R30A.
Nice, i just realized I have broken and rebuilt them all....
FS5R90A - Stripped input gear teeth on countershaft
FS5W71C - Sheered outputshaft clean in half, stripped all teeth off second gear, twice.
FS5R30A - Broken thrust spacer, allowed counter shaft to walk around and 3rd/4th syncro/hub assembly to fall apart
FS6R31A - Syncros
300zxturboftw: (2013-08-28 17:33:41)
I'm sure the teeth will go on 3rd in the 30a eventually. Before I took it apart though, my trans shifted like butter and I mean I can't believe it's not butter smooth margarine. We will see what happens. Had some nice pieces of shrapnel fall out when I drained the fluid. Switching to motul 300 from redline should help with trans shock resistance hopefully.
FlawleZ: (2013-08-28 19:21:27)
Not sure how much power you plan to put through the 30A, but I'm hitting 24 lbs right now on my 62mm which I'm hoping to be somewhere near or at 500. Well see soon enough. Hopefully my 240K mile 30A holds up. No grinding syncros yet…
quicksilverz31: (2013-08-28 19:31:55)
If you're worried about strength of the gear sets and other internals in the trans, have them cryo treated and micro-polished.
300zxturboftw: (2013-08-28 20:06:17)
Plan on seeing this for a few months then upping to over 600 for track days. Good to hear there is someone with real world testing vs. "yeah it should be fine" lol
NissanEgg: (2013-08-29 15:17:27)
Synchros are considered consumables in a manual transmission. They will wear out over time regardless. How fast depends on how you treat the trans when shifting, and are critically dependant on the right oil type and correct oil level. Think of synchros as brake pads, as they essentially operate the same way.
Tempestas: (2013-08-29 19:40:47)
Unless tons of customer's brake pads fail early and cause a bunch of warranty claims leading to a redesign, then they are considered faulty : )