Forums/Z31P/z31-basics how-to-guides-basic/Affordable 13" Brembo BBK (Big Brake Kit) - ***Zenki and Kouki Hubs***
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amreboot: (2014-05-25 04:51:20)
Hey all
I am bringing you all an affordable answer to a PERFECT z31 Big Brake Kit.
This will fit all hubs for the z31 including the non-turbo and turbo hubs from both Zenki and Kouki models!!
Also, these Brembo Calipers require the use of a banjo bolt type brake line setup.... so in other words, you can use the stock/factory z31 lines! I personally have SS z31 lines.
Here is what you need:
1 - EVO 8/9 or WRX STI (compatible years) Brembo Calipers
2 - S13 (or similar) to EVO Brembo Bracket
http://madparts.net/evo-brembo-caliper-brackets.html
If you order from madparts.net, note that Alex sent you there!
3 - 1994-2004 Ford Mustang Cobra 13" Rotors (I chose 2002 to be safe)
Here are the modification notes
1 - You will need to grind a bit of the aluminum webbing on the back of caliper to clear the bracket
2 - Depending on how much you grind on the back of the caliper, you may need to grind some off the brackets.
3 - You will need to flip the EVO Brembo bracket upside down (to raise the caliper a bit higher)
4 - With Kouki Turbo hubs, no spacing or shimming is required. But with Zenki hubs, you may need to space or shim the calipers. You will need longer studs when using the Zenki/non-turbo hubs.
Also, beware that if you run the Zenki hubs, the rotor and caliper will be approx. 14mm out further.
5 - Also I should add that the from the top hat of the rotor to the face of the caliper, it is 1.5". You may need a wheel spacer to accommodate this larger caliper.
I have always ran 25mm (1") wheel spacers, so for me, this isn't an issue.
Thats it.
amreboot: (2014-05-25 05:01:21)
I paid $150 for the EVO Brembo's
$100 for the brackets
$200 for the rotors from R1 Concepts
$80 for performance pads
Total - $530
This kit is an awesome option if you are able to be froogle and find the EVO Brembo's for an excellent price and what not.
Please note, that this kit is more of the massaging type to where you are to grind stuff and most likely need wheel spacers to accommodate the calipers.
Also, the BMC will most likely need to be upgraded. The EVO 8/9 uses a 17/16" BMC. You can match those same specifications by installing the z32 17/16".
jazztrumpet439: (2014-05-25 05:27:18)
That is awesome. This setup is officially on my to-do list for my Shiro!
joshers21: (2014-05-25 05:30:03)
Good job doing all the leg work! This is awesome.
NJ_Born_95: (2014-05-25 12:11:25)
Awesome! I was just about to buy Kouki turbo bubs for my 86T next month, but with this I'll just hold off.
turblown: (2014-05-26 00:30:22)
Holy crap. Amazing leg work Alex! Thanks so much. Certainly bookmarking this for the long-term future upgrades list!
floridaZ: (2014-05-26 03:48:12)
Heart you.
Kimbro Slice: (2014-05-26 07:00:08)
This changes everything!
Alex coming through in the clutch like always haha
FrozenZ: (2014-05-26 10:22:22)
Awesome legwork, Alex. If you're going to sticky this you might want to make it clear that this is only for 5-lug hubs and save people a bit of searching. Pretty sure that Mustangs have been all 5-lug since the foxbodies…
(admittedly this is pretty much a technicality since if you're still running 4-bolt hubs you probably a) don't have wheels this setup will fit in, and b) don't have enough rubber on those wheels to make a BBK do anything significantly better than stock.)
Parker: (2014-05-26 12:16:26)
That MadParts website also appears to sell a revised version of the bracket that doesn't require you to take a grinder to the caliper, if you don't mind spending a little more money.
adamvann3: (2014-05-27 14:53:02)
A couple of items, questions and comments.
1) First regarding the bracket and grinding of the caliper - there have been a ton of refinements with this setup in the s-chassis development. I believe if you got a better bracket this would limit or eliminate the need to grind out the calipers for clearance.
[archived image: imgx_106__53695.1304440723.1280.1280.jpg]
[archived image: imgx_103__25386.1304440724.1280.1280.jpg]
2) Zenki or Kouki hubs - I think this is largely the assumption made because the mustang 13" rotors have a larger hat diameter that will fit over the hubs? As with many people trying to adapt BBKs to zenki hubs there has been a lot of finagling and much refinement needed. You also mention the hub to spindle difference between the two. In theory this should work, but in practice I have not seen it cleanly done. You put a good disclaimer, but I dont think it will be as easy as its made out to be.
3) Brake Master Cylinder - You addressed it with the 17/16" z32 to accommodate front and rear. I will be interested in hearing about the pedal feel once you have it all ironed out.
Good write up Alex! I think it would well suited you add the post to the brake upgrade thread in the "Suspension/Brake" section of the forum. Good repository and a lot of research in that thread.
amreboot: (2014-05-27 15:00:49)
3 - You will need to flip the EVO Brembo bracket upside down (to raise the caliper a bit higher)
Those revisions will not make a difference for my write-up.
You are flipping the bracket to raise the caliper.
adamvann3: (2014-05-27 19:22:31)
Alex,
You are correct, I was still assuming evo 350mm (13.78") rotors in which you do not need to raise the bracket. Your application adapted to use 13" rotors.
**edit for rotor size 13" not 14"**
amreboot: (2014-05-27 20:11:25)
Alex,
You are correct, I was still assuming evo 350mm (13.78") rotors in which you do not need to raise the bracket. Your application adapted to use 14" rotors.
Haha, I think you are confused....
EVO 8/9 on their Brembo setups use a 12.5" rotor
EVO 10s on their Brembo setups use a 13.8" rotor
I am using a Cobra Mustang rotor which is a 13" rotor.
jazztrumpet439: (2014-05-27 21:00:35)
Where did you find the Brembos for $150!?
adamvann3: (2014-05-27 21:21:37)
Haha, I think you are confused....
EVO 8/9 on their Brembo setups use a 12.5" rotor
EVO 10s on their Brembo setups use a 13.8" rotor
I am using a Cobra Mustang rotor which is a 13" rotor.
Yes, I am now making up rotor diameters. I got it straight now.
amreboot: (2014-05-28 03:11:49)
Wheels on now.
Gotta put my exhaust back together, then its time for a test drive.
Lykoi: (2014-05-29 04:57:38)
Seriously where'd you find calipers for an evo at that price?
300zxturboftw: (2014-05-29 16:51:02)
Seriously where'd you find calipers for an evo at that price?
Check the forums. People part them all the time for cheap. Sti one's can be found as cheap. Check NASIOC. I sold these brembo's for $350 on ebay and was trying to get $500
amreboot: (2014-05-30 14:58:21)
Seriously where'd you find calipers for an evo at that price?
Craigslist buddy!
Turns out the seller was about 5 blocks from me.
He had upgraded his brakes and therefore no longer needed his "stockers".
530zx: (2014-06-24 03:31:32)
Very nice ! this is exactly what I wanted to know plus some, Thank you for putting in the work and doing a writeup on it.
amreboot: (2014-06-24 03:45:22)
Here is a cell phone (crappy) pic of my Z fresh off the jack stands!
ozzyrulez: (2014-07-16 02:39:05)
Well I ordered my brackets from Madparts and let's just say so far I'm having a hard time recommending them… Got my shipping notification with tracking on the 8th. According to tracking it still hasn't actually been shipped. Emailed them yesterday about it and they said they are having issues printing a shipping label. If the parts aren't shipped tomorrow I'm canceling the order and ordering from another vendor.
amreboot: (2014-07-16 02:58:03)
Well I ordered my brackets from Madparts and let's just say so far I'm having a hard time recommending them… Got my shipping notification with tracking on the 8th. According to tracking it still hasn't actually been shipped. Emailed them yesterday about it and they said they are having issues printing a shipping label. If the parts aren't shipped tomorrow I'm canceling the order and ordering from another vendor.
Thats really weird! I bought mine on a Saturday evening and he shipped on the next Monday. I had them in hand by Thursday.
You should call him and ask whats going on.
ozzyrulez: (2014-07-16 04:34:45)
Yeah I think I will call them. This is just dumb. I would like to put the brakes on this weekend lol
ozzyrulez: (2014-07-16 16:55:44)
Turns out the brackets are/were on back order. Would have been nice to know when I ordered them, I wouldn't have been worrying about what the hell is going on lol.
amreboot: (2014-07-16 19:49:24)
Eh, that sucks man.
Is the ETA acceptable or is it too far out?
ozzyrulez: (2014-07-17 03:42:37)
Well they issued me another tracking number today, still hasn't shipped lol. Though he did say they should be here in 2-3 days so fingers crossed.
ozzyrulez: (2014-07-18 16:34:16)
Yeah, I can't recommend Madparts. Two days later and still hasn't shipped. So begins week 3 of waiting…
amreboot: (2014-07-18 18:33:57)
Wow…
Did you use PayPal?
Start a claim.
ozzyrulez: (2014-07-18 21:05:46)
Yeah I used PayPal luckily. Probably start the claim tonight when I get home from work. Got to find another vendor now.
ozzyrulez: (2014-07-19 04:44:01)
Well I just got home and went to file the Paypal dispute. Figured I would check one last time to see if it shipped and I'll be damned it was! So I guess I will finally have them next week.
For anyone else that is thinking about using them for brackets I highly recommend making sure they are in stock first to save yourself some headaches.
ozzyrulez: (2014-07-27 20:21:52)
I got mine installed this weekend, well minus the Z32 master I was not aware one of the brass inserts was missing. I'll get that swapped sometime this week. They look great though.
amreboot: (2014-07-29 03:15:42)
Wow! That looks great!
Marissasimos: (2015-01-19 23:08:10)
Anyone know of a cheaper upgrade that's guaranteed to fit 4 lugs? My brakes are really sucky lately.
Bremsen: (2015-01-20 14:55:03)
Anyone know of a cheaper upgrade that's guaranteed to fit 4 lugs? My brakes are really sucky lately.
First and foremost, flush/replace the brake fluid. Get a good DOT4 or DOT5.1 fluid. A quart should do. Suck out the old fluid with a turkey baster, then fill and bleed the brake system starting with the furthest caliper. If your soft lines are old you can replace with new rubber or go to a SS braided. Get some good brake pads and bed them in properly.
Unless you're tracking the car and or driving very spiritedly, the stock brakes work just fine. Brake kits are mostly to help with repeatability.
jaqattack02: (2015-01-20 15:01:17)
Anyone know of a cheaper upgrade that's guaranteed to fit 4 lugs? My brakes are really sucky lately.
You should just start putting together the parts to do a 5 lug swap. If you play your cards right and find a set of late model turbo front hubs, it really opens up your options.
FrozenZ: (2015-01-20 15:41:32)
what bremsen said. Even with plain old NA zenki brakes, if SS lines, good pads and proper bleeding don't give you more brake than you can plausibly use on the street you should probably find a safer place to push the envelope [archived image: wink.png]
The no-fail z31 bleeding technique I have found is to park the car on a very slight nose-up incline or just drive up the front wheels up on a piece of 3/4" ply, suck out all the old fluid you can. Put a little bit of tubing and a catch bottle (mountain dew is best) on each caliper, open all four at once, and fill up the reservoir. Go play guitar/vidya/talk shit on forums for an hour and a half. Every ten or fifteen minutes hit pause, come back and pour in however much more fluid you need to top it up. If it goes empty after the first check, just fill it up again. If it goes empty after the second check, cut down your check interval to five minutes. Don't even bother looking at the hoses, shit'll take care of itself and you'll probably just knock over one of the catch bottles and get brake fluid on the driveway. After an hour and a half, or like 45 minutes if your cylinder emptied out the first two checks, just close all four bleeder screws and I'll bet you lunch with two beers that you've got your best brake pedal ever.
Seriously, with these cars the harder you try the worse a bleed you'll get. This method *sounds* like a lot of hassle but it's a lot less work than fucking around with different bleed methods and it's worked for me, like, every single time on two different z31s and a couple other cars w/o ABS. It's not a good shop method because you waste a lot of brake fluid and the car is 'on the shop floor' for longer than other methods, but it's easy, requires no fiddling around, and has always worked really well for me.
Marissasimos: (2015-01-25 23:07:50)
Yeah, my dad and I bled the system, and sure enough we found my front driver's caliper began seeping. Just funny because I replaced the front passenger's caliper a month ago. Funny coincidence.
NJ_Born_95: (2015-02-27 08:31:03)
Will these work with 17 inch wheels? I want to go this route but the wheels i want to use are 17inch and would prefer not step up to 18in wheels.
amreboot: (2015-02-27 15:35:49)
Yup. They will work with 17" s
V8srfun: (2015-03-21 23:51:19)
Has any one actually done this on zenki hubs yet
Amadeus: (2016-02-20 00:39:05)
Not to bring a tread back from the dead but will 16" wheels fit over this?
amreboot: (2016-02-20 05:40:55)
Not likely
17" is probably the smallest size. But it all depends on your wheel barrel. Some wheels have very large barrel
G-E: (2016-02-26 06:18:14)
Rule of thumb <13" rotor fits a 16" wheel, 13" rotor for a 17" wheel, and 14" rotor for 18" wheel
Axel kain: (2016-02-26 13:19:04)
Alex or anyone else who has done this, for simplicity sake, mind measuring the radius from center to caliper outside. that way people can measure their barrels beforehand!
baseldon: (2018-01-02 14:58:22)
Hi All, could you tell me please whether this BBk way is the better/more effective/useful/I don't know or the Z32 caliper swap? I am trying to figure out from the lot of writings. I have na European model from 87 but the car itself I believe from 86. For sure not the 87 facelift. I hardly find parts. No 88 Turbo hub or strut at all around. I found Z32 caliper witout rotor, and also found R32 caliper with rotor. Is the R32 caliper/rotor same as Z32?