Forums/Z31P/z31-basics basic-modifications-basic-questions-aka-the-newbie-forum/Question on a V8 swap
Imported from Z31Performance.com Forums{{#if:FallenRev| — original post by FallenRev}}{{#if:2010-03-02 05:28:22|, posted 2010-03-02 05:28:22}}{{#if:64| · 64 post{{#ifeq:64|1||s}}}}{{#if:/Z31performance_archive/forum/z31-basics/basic-modifications-basic-questions-aka-the-newbie-forum/9717-question-on-a-v8-swap.html|
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FallenRev: (2010-03-02 05:28:22)
Well, i was considering doing the NA2T on my Z. But then i thought, after i get done with my street driving on it, i'm going to turn it into a pure drag car. Why not go ahead and drop a v8 in it ya know? But my question on this is, how much money and insane effort would it take to do this? Sorry if i overlooked anything about it on the z sites, just couldn't find a good guide on it.
bleakdragonmage: (2010-03-02 05:38:18)
- sighs* If i were you, i would put on your flamesuit…
I will offer some advice… Just go to hybridz.org
six2eight: (2010-03-02 05:38:30)
[http://[video=youtube_share;XvaKe-91o60 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvaKe-91o60[/video]] [archived image: yt_logo_rgb_light.png]]
who needs a v8 8)
FallenRev: (2010-03-02 05:54:17)
someone who grew up around v8's and misses it? Might sound sacrilegious to some of you to put a v8 in a z31, but i love my Z and want to make it unique.
EDIT: And thanks bleakdragonmage, i completely overlooked hybridz, my bad.
bleakdragonmage: (2010-03-02 06:01:21)
Hate to tell you, but you might be more unique than most, but there are still a couple of us around that have v8 swapped Z's.
Myself
Alf
ChapparelZ
and i believe someone is even stuffing a 500 Cadillac engine in a Z31, although i forgot his name.
Alf has a mini write-up that covers some stuff.
After you purchase some of the stuff, if you run into any snags, you can PM me and i can help as well.
FallenRev: (2010-03-02 06:06:26)
Well first off, O_O to the 500 cadillac engine being stuffed in one xD.
And yeah I know people have done it, it would be pretty ignorant to think that it's never been done :lol:
It's going to be a pretty long term project as well, so when I get into it more i'll probably end up PM'ing you about it. Thanks for the help man.
bleakdragonmage: (2010-03-02 06:08:46)
Yea, that was my response. I don't think it will fit, its too big. The exhaust manifolds will probably hand over the frame-rails. But hey, i guess we'll see.
FallenRev: (2010-03-02 06:18:59)
More power to him is all i have to say xD I'm couldn't even imagine trying to wrangle that thing in there.
TurboDreams: (2010-03-02 06:35:15)
Yeah the Cadillac 500ci has one hell of a world record under it's belt, it's been in the fastest gas internal combustion engine powered car. Would certainly make for a hell of a Z, sounds like it might take some major cutting and maybe even some welding to widen and lengthen the bay.
sprtcrazy17: (2010-03-02 07:10:50)
That'd be Trbulnt. I am releasing no further details :twisted:
bleakdragonmage: (2010-03-02 07:17:36)
He hasn't updated his thread in like 3 weeks. I still don't think it will fit without modifying the frame rails. I could be wrong though… Would be cool to see, but that 500 cadillac is such a big engine.
Mitchd03: (2010-03-02 17:51:25)
Wasn't the caddy 500cui motor in a fwd car?
TurboDreams: (2010-03-02 18:22:00)
For the 1970 model year, the Eldorado introduced the new 500 cu in (8.2 l) V8 engine, the largest-ever production V8, rated SAE gross 400 hp (298 kW) and 550 ft·lbf (746 N·m) in 1970, that would be an Eldorado exclusive until it became standard on all full sized Cadillacs in the 1975 model year
El Dorado - FWD
Fleetwood - RWD
Deville - RWD
Calais - RWD
So yes originally it was but it was also found in quite a few RWD cars as well. The weird thing is I'm looking at pics of ElDorado engine bays and the engine is facing forward. Wonder what the curb weight is on these things. They'd make for great drag cars if they were lighter :lol:
Crazy: (2010-03-02 18:23:51)
If your going v8 go with the LSX 6.0L VQ9 with the 4L80E auto trans. Turbocharged of coarse.
TurboDreams: (2010-03-02 18:25:22)
Only a 6 liter? LS7 7L :nanan?re
bleakdragonmage: (2010-03-02 18:41:27)
I Lol'd at this. Oh, and its not "VQ9" its "LQ9".
As for the LS7, i would go with a LQ9,LS6 intake setup, and cam swap. Much cheaper than a ls7, hell, its cheaper than a LS1 and will flow better.
TurboDreams: (2010-03-02 19:32:49)
LS swaps aren't supposed to be cheap, if you wanted cheap you'd swap in a VG30E, you can pick them up for $250 on ebay :lol:
displacement FTW: more of it = more low end = better spool up = wider powerband at same hp.
bleakdragonmage: (2010-03-02 20:11:16)
Yea, but there are cheaper alternatives. Only difference between the LS and LQ is the block. LS is aluminum and LQ is iron. Other than that, they are basically the same.
DeleriousZ: (2010-03-04 20:54:19)
ugh…
2slick85z31: (2010-03-04 22:16:53)
chevy 350, down stroke it to a 3.0L and twin turbo it i met a guy running this in his camaro and he's running around 800 hp at the crank iirc. running efi and coil on plug. full stad-alone etc. this motor has been in 3 different camaro's from what he's told me and it's bent the frame in 2 out of the 3. Lol so put that in your z and show it off :nanan?re
FallenRev: (2010-03-05 01:25:44)
Was planning on a 350 in the first place so that is nice to hear :-D
pearlstyx: (2010-03-05 16:20:15)
if your planning on going full drag with it why choose a z31 with IRS? Both NHRA and IHRA require solid axles if you're running any kind of fast ET's I think the NHRA rule is faster than 10.50. That is fairly slow to have to back half your car for.
michaelp: (2010-03-05 17:13:51)
Z31P
pearlstyx: (2010-03-05 18:59:29)
This is right out of the rule book page 19 under rear end. The NHRA requirements for an IRS are "Must have 360-degree, minimum 1-Inch-wide by 1/4 thick axle retention loop on each axle." and "Car running 10.99 (*6.99)or quicker that weigh more than 2,000 pounds with independent rear suspension without upper and lower (both) control arms must replace swing axle differential with conventional differential housing assembly (Example 1963-1982 Corvette).
TurboDreams: (2010-03-05 19:57:20)
When I read those rules all I see is blah blah blah you should have bought a Foxbody.
pearlstyx: (2010-03-05 21:46:07)
I know it sucks!! thats why i'm sticking with the vg and running street classes so i can save some $ for a full chassis car in the future.
I'm planning on running the UMTR north series this year but probably wont even break into the 12's. OH well It'll be fun none the less!!
AS to the V8 i say do it but don't plan on running 9's legally. Have Fun!
FallenRev: (2010-03-05 22:14:34)
I'm not going to make it into a drag STRIP car for quite a while. I honestly prefer not having to deal a whole bunch of regulations and such. What transmission that would fit a chevy 350 would fit into the Z without too much modification? Or am i going to have to do shifter location changes and such either way?
New 2 Z: (2010-03-05 22:50:45)
all you need is a VG30 and a shit load of money.
[http://[video=youtube_share;LzvaMhRTPrE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzvaMhRTPrE[/video]] [archived image: yt_logo_rgb_light.png]]
i believe it was said to hold 1,200hp but i have no proof to back that up.
Trbulnt: (2010-03-06 02:51:47)
Well I was going to install the large caddy motor in my car, and have decided to go the 350 sbc route instead. I tried test fitting the caddy motor and while it could be made to fit, it would require far more cutting of the chassis than I want to do to my car. The transmission would have been the cabin! So the caddy Z will have to wait until my next Z car in which I "will" stuff one in a 240Z. In the end the 350 with a manual trans will fit my desire to road race and autocross the car while still being able to go on cruises. Somewhere along the line forced induction will once again be on this car with the V8. I have heard all the Nissan purists statements in regards to a non VG motor in the car and I will say it again. It's "your" car!! Build it how you want and enjoy it.
ZFast88Z: (2010-03-06 03:17:17)
Never once have I been stopped from running at an NHRA track because of IRS. There are plenty of people campaigning cars with IRS that run faster then 10.99. Most run at NHRA sponsored tracks, they just dont run NHRA events.
hypcodiiihop: (2010-03-06 04:45:30)
key words.
And if you happen to have convenient low budget friendly tracks nearby, you can run any times you want so long as you don't leak.
Grr: (2010-03-06 14:50:56)
the thing regarding the NHRA rules, there is a reason it says "swing axle". This does not apply to semi trailing arm suspensions. The reason it says swing axle is for cars such as the VW bug, where the axle is the solid link controlling camber. If they break an axle on one of those the tire will collapse and cause the car to go out of control.
Now, since you have a TH350 laying around you want to build on, i would suggest either going with a SBC, LSx, or sticking with the VG and getting the adapter for the trans. Would be a little more money but im sure you can get a 8" converter and modify it to bolt to an auto flexplate. I would personally put a 5.3 in it but thats just me, i miss my turbo 6.0l, that thing was wild
zmech: (2010-03-06 23:57:17)
0
bleakdragonmage: (2010-03-07 05:16:04)
It is… He said for drag, so i assumed he meant an American engine. Sorry, i know assumtions make an ass out of u and me, but i didn't think he would be choosing a nissan platform… Maybe he will… I like the nissan v8 swaps.
Trbulnt: (2010-03-07 13:27:18)
+1 on Nissan V8 swaps. The Z31 community in general seems to have this persona that any motor other than a VG in the Z is the worst idea ever. Some people just like the sound and feal of a V8. For me a nice high revving aluminum head stroker V8 is just music to my ears. Plus there's something fun about opening your hood for people and seeing there faces when they realize that somethings not quite right.
zmech: (2010-03-07 15:11:18)
0
FallenRev: (2010-03-08 01:31:03)
I'm going with an american built chevy 350. It's the engine i know how to work on and grew up around. I'd prefer a v8 over the VG any day, sorry to anyone that offends. Wanting to drop a 350 in my Z has been on my mind since a first bought it. And I'm also getting a job rebuilding carburetors, so having a 350 will be a charm.
DeleriousZ: (2010-03-08 01:58:26)
why not buy something that's american then?
bleakdragonmage: (2010-03-08 02:32:30)
Because maybe he likes his Z… Why does it matter.
badboyz31: (2010-03-08 03:22:59)
Well you guys can count another Z guy converting to the American V8 side. Should be going to pick up my LM7 engine in a couple of days or so. I decided to go with this one for reasons such as its a 5.3L, so I can retain at least some DD capability.
I have to pick up the engine then decide what tranny I want to go with it. Anyone got any ideas for a manual tranny that I can use with this?
Already got the LS1 intake ordered
Z06 Cam
Billet Fuel Rails and a few other things
Also I was told by Grr that this engine will hold boost much better then some of the other engines, so with the possibility of boosting it later, is another reason im going with this engine!
FallenRev: (2010-03-08 04:01:35)
Because I like the look of the Z's? If you have a problem with what i'm doing, shove it.
DeleriousZ: (2010-03-08 04:12:46)
Just saying, you'd be in the company of more like minded people if you owned an american car.
bleakdragonmage: (2010-03-08 04:14:59)
Or he could just swap his Z… Which I think is a perfectly good idea (assuming he actually does it.)
NissanEgg: (2010-03-08 04:22:54)
If you are gonna do an American V-8, go LS1 or LS2 and a t56 and call it a day. At least the LS would weight close to or less than the VG30ET.
bleakdragonmage: (2010-03-08 04:27:05)
Honestly, even the iron blocks don't weight that much more than a VG30… Hell, if you relocate the battery, you can make it pretty damn close.
badboyz31: (2010-03-08 05:09:08)
Shit for the power to be made from the V8, what does that little bit of weight even matter...........absolutely nothing really!
Trbulnt: (2010-03-08 05:20:01)
V8 hate in a Z31 is strong on this forum. I did some more test fitting of my 350 today and am just looking for a trans before I finalize my motor mounts so I know that everything will fit as required.
FallenRev: (2010-03-08 05:28:19)
if the situation was presented, i would not hesitate to trade my Z for a classic american muscle car. But i chose to buy the Z, so i'm going to make it how i want it :-D
DeleriousZ: (2010-03-08 05:40:10)
American v8 hate. zmech's car is one of my top 5 z31's.
bleakdragonmage: (2010-03-08 05:49:29)
Dude, we get it. You don't really like America, and you hate American V8's and shit. Quit fucking coming into threads that you KNOW are going to mention an American V8 and spouting off shit. Just go right over it… Its not hard to do.
And i agree, Zmech's car is done very well. Won't say its in my top 5… but definitely my top 10
FallenRev: (2010-03-08 06:25:17)
I just can't see why people have so much hate on here for American v8's. Apparently they have never been behind the wheel of a growling beast. I mean, the sound alone is better than any other type of motor. Once you stomp it in a high HP v8, you'll never want anything less again. I'd rather spend my money, and have a supercharged (Yes, after the swap and some money saving up I am going to find a way) v8, than put it into the VG30. Don't get me wrong, I love Z's with a passion, I have never regret purchasing it, but I am not to fond of the VG30.
DeleriousZ: (2010-03-08 06:32:11)
why not?
FallenRev: (2010-03-08 06:37:18)
[quote]DeleriousZ wrote:
but I am not to fond of the VG30.
why not?
Well I should have worded that differently. What I ment by that is I don't have any where near as much the knowledge of it than american v8's. When I purchased this Z, I did so with the mindset that I am going to turn it exactly into what I want. And the best memories from my childhood are hauling ass down a country back road in my familie's 87 Camero with a LT1 that would push everything of 200MPH, call bullshit it if you want, I witnessed it. And even though I'm not yet putting something with as much power under the hood, it's a step towards it. I am going to do everything possible to not turn it into an abomination looks wise. I still want it to look like the good ole z31 :-D
Grr: (2010-03-08 09:36:16)
yes, good for everyone in here going the easy route! The 5.3 is by far the best candidate for teh swap as they are so plentiful and cheap, and the big daddy of them all is the 05+ L33 aluminum block 5.3 which is one of the strongest stock engines on the market. If you can find a L33 for a decent price of 700-900 i would go for it. Better heads (243's) 05+ truck motors got huge rods that are good for 800hp, and flat top pistons with 9.9:1 compression. Did i mention the aluminum block with rediculously thick sleeves?!?!?
Also if you are looking into a manual trans that is way cheaper than a T56 look into the TV3500 (i think) that came in the pickups as well. It is in all essence a R154 (supra) and has a good slave with cluthes availible from spec that would hold 800hp in a Z, i reccomend the spec 3+ by far, great setup. If any of you have LSx engine specific questions i will try to answer them as best i can, I do know first hand about turbo and superchargers for them, and the fact that my bone stock 6.0L was making a bit over 700hp and is still going strong after 4 years
floridaZ: (2010-03-08 09:43:46)
V8 swaps in Zs are the shit (waits for ghey "fixed" comment). I wouldn't mind owning a V8 swapped Z, though I think I'd prefer a S30. There are less on the road so you can piss off more people for less work. :nanan?re And that bodystyle (to me) just looks like something that should have something better than a 2.4L 6 cylinder in it. Out of the V8 swaps I have seen in Z31s though, zmech seems to have make the perfect combination. Unfortunately, it would seem to me that maybe all that does is take the problems with the VG, and add two more cylinders for it to play in (cost, aftermarket, all that fun stuff). I could be wrong, but you could take a bare SBC or SBF block into any parts store, and walk out with a complete engine's worth of parts.
Actually, I've seen a few pictures of somebody starting to put a Viper motor in a 240Z. Do want. Can get Viper driveline for less than ZFast claims to be spending on his VG37ETT.
/drool
ZFast88Z: (2010-03-08 21:43:09)
And still be 500 horsepower short....Wait I bet you wouldnt crack a block though…
A Viper drivetrain would be a very good start. They have the best version of the T-56 6-speed out there unless you go aftermarket.
badboyz31: (2010-03-13 23:05:49)
I just picked up my LSX engine, and Im ready to start working on this beast of a thing!
Plan to get is running and everything and get used to the HP and TQ it puts out then go with mods from there. Also I like that fact that it was a very well maintained engine.
TurboDreams: (2010-03-13 23:45:04)
lol don't try getting used to the new found torque in the rain (since we all know Polk County has been rainy as hell this past week)
badboyz31: (2010-03-14 03:50:10)
haha I know that man, shit with that engine I will not even drive the car in the rain anymore.....im already too scared to do so as it is!
TurboDreams: (2010-03-14 16:34:08)
I can imagine, I know how far INSTINCTIVELY now (well actually I've known for 2 years) to drive straight while torque steering, granted this is never a problem when it isn't raining. This is Florida though, it rains all summer.
Double up on the torque driving a Z31 in the rain = hell. Call me an idiot but I have accidentally drifted my mom's Xterra on a rainy day making a right at a busy 4 way stop intersection.
badboyz31: (2010-03-14 20:44:40)
yea tell me about, the day before thanksgiving in 09 I was heading to tampa and it was pouring cats and dogs. I was switching lanes and did a 540 on I-4, but I just kept my cool and worked my way out of it safe and unharmed. Did scare the shit out of me, but I figured if I would have paniced I would have totaled my car and probably died!
TurboDreams: (2010-03-15 16:22:34)
You're probably right about that, I can't imagine remaining calm after doing a 360 much less a 540. What did you do just pull off to the side of the road and re-enter?
My most recent "almost accident" moment I was looking over my right shoulder to see if I could get in the other lane. The guy in front of me hauls ass on his brakes and I look back over just in time to get in the other lane coming within a foot of clipping his trailer. I had two people in the car that thought they were going to die but I didn't even get phased (but I did get pissed)
michaelp: (2010-03-15 16:24:12)
Z31P
TurboDreams: (2010-03-15 16:31:36)
Blind spots don't. I've made the mistake of relying on them one two many times when I've almost merged into a Mustang and another time a Prelude.