Forums/Z31P/z31-performance-upgrade-forums suspension-chassis-and-brakes/S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!!
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ShamWow: (2011-03-13 21:25:24)
Over the past couple months I have been quite busy, developing a "kit" to allow the dedicated Z31 owner to easily install a 240sx rear suspension into there Z31 chassis. The kit takes away all of the measuring/thinking required for the swap.
[archived image: GEDC0368.jpg]
The kit is still in its prototype phase, so you will notice from the pictures that things are tack welded, or only partly assembled. I will update with more when all is complete. Note that I am using STANCE aluminum subframe bushings, but the kit allows you to use ANY aftermarket bushings, whether rubber, polyurethane, or aluminum. Additionally, any of the aftermarket 240sx subframe risers can be used to fine tune anti-squat and roll center geometry.
HOW DOES IT WORK?
Perhaps you already have an idea of whats required for mounting the 240sx subframe in a Z31, as its been documented by Z31Performance member Butter in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22 In short, the rear mounts of the subframe line up with a frame member in the rear of the car. The front mounts nearly reach the Z31 chassis spikes, but require some extension of some sorts for the install. Some light notching/hammering is also required.
One issue that people always run into with installing the kit is the measurements and calculations. Centering the subframe is very important, but perhaps more important is getting the subframe "tilt" correct; it dictates anti-squat and roll center. This tilt is critical for how the rear of the car grips. Some people want less, others want more. To find a middle ground, I have taken the time to compare the chassis measurements of the S13 and Z31 rear chassis. Given this, the kit is correctly designed to give you the exact same anti-squat and roll center dimensions of the S13 chassis. Many aftermarket "riser bushings" exist (SPL parts for example) to fine tune subframe tilt, allowing you to increase or decrease the traction available at the rear of the car.
The kit I have created includes two main pieces, which I will call the rear bar, and the front extensions.
The Rear Bar
The rear bars purpose is to locate and secure the rear mounts of the subframe. For install, the bar is mounted to the Z31 chassis, aligning with the OEM differential mount studs.
[archived image: GEDC0376-1.jpg]
As pictured above, two CNC machined steel "spikes" extend from the rear bar. These spikes are the new mounting studs for the 240sx subframe. Once secured by the OEM differential mount studs, the rear bar is welded to the frame member, including these C-channel pieces:
[archived image: GEDC0403.jpg]
This completes the mounting of the rear of the subframe. You now have 2 studs protruding from the Z31 chassis to accept the 240sx subframe.
The Front Extensions
With the rear of the subframe bolted up into place over the studs, the front mounts are now examined. The OE 240sx subframe mounts are a bit short; they dont fully extend to the Z31 chassis studs:
[archived image: GEDC0378.jpg]
To extend the subframe mounts, first the mount is cut in half:
[archived image: GEDC0400.jpg]
Then, this piece (front extension) is welded to the subframe. An additional gusset plate will box the "U" shape in, and will be fully welded.
[archived image: GEDC0401.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0398.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0402.jpg]
[u]WHAT COMES IN THE KIT/WHAT DO I NEED?
The kit includes the rear bar with CNC machined studs already TIG welded in place. Two C-channel pieces are included to "cup" the frame rail and be welded in place. The kit includes two "U" pieces to extend the front mounts, and associated gusset plate.
To install the kit you will need a MIG welder and angle grinder. You will need some type of aftermarket subframe mounts, whether aluminum or polyurethane, such as STANCE, or SPL. You will need to do some notching of the frame rails. When using the wider S14/S15 subframe, you will NEED TO HAVE offset S13 conversion bushings such as these:
Obviously, to experience the benefits of this swap, you will want aftermarket suspension links for camber, toe and traction adjustment. You also need to hook up the 240sx brakes, and have an extended driveshaft.. This is all covered in the multi-link swap thread posted above.
WHAT'S THE COST?
See this thread for more details!
http://z31performance.com/showthread…-Kit-Group-Buy
Butter: (2011-03-13 22:11:47)
Re: S13/S14 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
I'm willing to bet this would also work on S12, 510, and M30. At least, with minimal modification.
badboyz31: (2011-03-13 22:23:11)
Re: S13/S14 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
How much just for the rear bar part with studs because I already have my solid front mount parts made?
Also did you guys have to notch the frame any to gets yours to fit properly?
Butter: (2011-03-14 00:22:24)
Re: S13/S14 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Yes.
adamvann3: (2011-03-14 00:52:32)
Re: S13/S14 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
im down
ShamWow: (2011-03-14 01:43:13)
Re: S13/S14 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
PM sent.
Thanks for the interest. If anyone has questions, don't hesitate. This kit makes the subframe install a weekend affair.
Taris Blue: (2011-03-14 02:14:11)
Re: S13/S14 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
S12's have no rear shock towers, so that's problem number one…the rest of the fitment we hope to have checked in the next few months…when I get all my broken shit out of the way so I can move cars around.
DudeZX: (2011-03-14 03:35:33)
Re: S13/S14 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Well, this just makes it too easy…
My poly bushings have been squeaking recently due to me not applying enough grease on them when I did the camber mod. I was on the verge of pulling everything apart again to regrease them, but this has convinced me that the next time I touch the semi-trailing arm rear suspension in my car, it will be to remove it completely…
I, for one, welcome our new Z31 aftermarket overlords.
I'll have the money for this soon…
DeleriousZ: (2011-03-14 05:13:06)
Re: S13/S14 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
be interested to see how this turns out in 6-8mo's, then i might be interested.
ShamWow: (2011-03-14 11:41:20)
Re: S13/S14 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Edited for a few details about what's been done concerning Anti-Squat and Roll center.
SATAN: (2011-03-14 13:52:11)
Re: S13/S14 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
In 6-8 months time, it is just going to be "the way it's done".
Also, if you could get this down to maybe a 5 minute install THEN I might buy one. One weekend is far too long for superior suspension geometry.
ShamWow: (2011-03-14 20:42:41)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
I have received a few questions about the price.
The total price will be between $150 and $200. Your $50 deposit counts towards this price, it is not extra. The final amount then (between $100 and $150) will be due prior to shipment.
Hope this clears up any confusion.
Butter: (2011-03-14 20:54:54)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
What's the difference between this kit and the one Chungingzhou sells for $198.45? Maybe just the glue it uses? I don't know if I can justify paying more for the swap kit than what I spent on the whole subframe....
Careless: (2011-03-14 23:01:44)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
hahahahahahaha.
Question for you Mike.
if i pay now, 50 bucks- does that ensure that my kit will be made- and say if there are other personal costs at the time of production, will it be waiting in a box for me for a predetermined reasonable amount of time before they're back on the auctioning block (if yes, what is reasonable to you?).
I.E - buying injectors, rails, couplers, fittings, etc… might get costly- but I want to secure a set with 50 bucks if possible.
ShamWow: (2011-03-14 23:52:29)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
HAHAHA.
Okay your right I forgot, deadbeat Z31 owners forum.
Lets say, if you pay the deposit, and I make you a kit, you will have 4 weeks to come up with the remaining $100 or $150 or whatever… After that I am selling it to someone else and not giving you ANY refund. :bombe
ShamWow: (2011-03-15 00:28:24)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Hmm. Centering has multiple dimensions? Do you mean in a track width sort of way? Or from a side view? What if I just say yes? S13 track is a little wider than Z31; all detailed in stickied multi-link thread.
No idea if any spring/shock combo fits with the S13 subframe, please reference stickied multi-link thread. I suggest using quality aftermarket coilovers.
S14 subframe fits if you use the offset bushings to account for its wider mounting points.
DeleriousZ: (2011-03-15 00:31:03)
Re: S13/S14 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
[quote]OK85ZX wrote:
be interested to see how this turns out in 6-8mo's, then i might be interested.
What do you mean?
SATAN wrote:
In 6-8 months time, it is just going to be "the way it's done".
is what I mean. I'll be waiting for all of the bugs to be worked out, aka differential mount v1, bump steer spacers v1, xbox 360 1st/2nd/3rd shipment.
I realize the majority of the load is on the center spikes, what i'm not sold on is the extension design, gusset included.
ShamWow: (2011-03-15 00:34:55)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Care to explain where your fears arise specifically with this front mount design? Also what do you mean most load is on center spikes? Load is distributed over all 4 mounting points quite evenly?
Keep in mind we are imagining it as being fully boxed to the subframe. Also recall that this has worked for several years of tracking and abuse:
ShamWow: (2011-03-15 00:47:55)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Yes.
But "Caster" will be fully adjustable anyways since you will be buying adjustable Traction Links. As will Camber and Toe, since you will also buy links for that. As will ride height, damping, spring rate, roll rate, gear ratios… They make everything for these subframes. :lol:
OK85ZX: (2011-03-15 01:46:17)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
You are correct about what it comes with, but the two links you listed are one or the other. The first is an "offset bushing" to convert from an S13 subframe to s14 (or vice versa), while the second link is just using the S13 subframe. The mouting points on the S14 are slightly offset from the S13, hence the "offset bushing". So, Mike's parts that you listed + one or the other of the links, depending on the subframe you purchase.
tl:dr
If your subframe is
S13: Mike's parts + http://stance-usa.com/sus/products/chassis/bushing-set
S14/S15: Mike's parts + http://stance-usa.com/sus/products/chassis/conv-bushing
SATAN: (2011-03-15 01:59:04)
Re: S13/S14 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
[quote]DeleriousZ wrote: [quote=OK85ZX]
be interested to see how this turns out in 6-8mo's, then i might be interested.
What do you mean?
is what I mean. I'll be waiting for all of the bugs to be worked out, aka differential mount v1, bump steer spacers v1, xbox 360 1st/2nd/3rd shipment.
I realize the majority of the load is on the center spikes, what i'm not sold on is the extension design, gusset included.
You have to remember that there is no downward force on the extension part of the subframe (unless in gear and slowing down). All of the force applied to this area will be pushing UP on the underside of the car. I am of the OPINION that it will be strong enough. If I had done it, I probably would have made the extensions out of .187" thick steel though. However, I'm sure .125" is strong enough for this application.
ShamWow: (2011-03-15 02:17:47)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
A couple things:
- The prototypes is all 10gauge, (.1345"). The cost for thicker steel is minimal, I can easily make it from 8ga (.179"). 10ga is plenty strong and easier to weld though. The weak point of the design is where/how well you weld it. I will provide install/weldement instructions, but its the end user who will determine strength.
- Bum, I tried to be clear about that in the first post. You will need to buy some bushings for an S13, whether you want aluminum, rubber, polyurethane.. whatever. If using S14/S15 subframe you need offset "conversion" bushings. I like the STANCE brand aluminum bushings. Aside from OK85zx's post, you may want to also consider about $500 in adjustable links, $1000 in a 2way LSD, $1500 in coilovers, $200 in sway bars, $300 in brakes, $300 in a custom driveshaft…Oh yeah and the exhaust needs a slight re-route… :lol:
Butter: (2011-03-15 04:23:03)
Re: S13/S14 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
I'm pretty sure the prototype is going on his car first and then any revisions will be done then before any others are made and sent out. It's what I would do. I wouldn't wait on these kits either. There are only so many people here willing to do this mod even when you make it this easy. Once these people get their kits, how long do you think before a 2nd batch will be needed, if at all? For how much?
Have you ever seen a S13 subframe in person? It's made from stamped 14/16ga sheetmetal and you can bend it with a screwdriver. It does not support the weight of the car. These additions will be the strongest area of the whole thing.
Multilink isn't just for track meets and HJ's. It transforms the feel of the whole car. Once you strap one of these on and make the 1st turn around the corner at 10mph, you notice it IMMEDIATELY.
Kennedy: (2011-03-15 05:48:56)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
So that is S13 240SX subframe. Is that identical to S13 180SX? (Since we don't have 240SX models here)
Wilsonthesphere: (2011-03-15 20:30:43)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
I send the deposit via paypal Mike.
For me this is places the final nail in coffin for converting to full coil-over suspension.From lurking on the forums and seeing the development of the weld-on front stance coil-over adapters to now the rear s-chassis multi link kit, this is as easy as its going to get to make the z31 handle like a proper sports car. Everyone should have some tax return money coming or left over to invest in enhancing the development of the z31 market place. Do it now before the Z31 goes mainstream and becomes overpriced much like the S-chassis car are now. You'll be surprised with the type of shitty cars the s-guys successfully sell of $3to4K
ShamWow: (2011-03-16 00:04:24)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Edited to mention the notching.
For some reason, people keep asking if frame rail notching is required. YES You will need to do some hammering, and notching of the frame rail. This will depend on what links you buy, and which 240sx subframe you use.
I have notched my frame rails near the traction link and near the front LCA mount. I will be bending up a little L piece and welding it in place. This is something I can't include in the kit, its dependent on YOUR specific setup, and the subframe/links you choose… your going to be figuring this out on your own!
Rick88ss: (2011-03-16 18:56:01)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
So how much will your wheels stick out with the S13 subframe?
If you're using wheel spacers I guess you're OK. Just take off the spacers or use thinner spacers. But if you don't use spacers and your wheels barely touch you're gonna need new wheels?
Also what's the best diff to use? What year? Are they as good as the differential on the 88 SS?
Looking at the whole swap it looks pretty expensive. What's a good total estimate if you use moderately priced adj suspension bits and don't do your own welding?
ShamWow: (2011-03-16 19:13:14)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
I'd really like to keep the basic questions of figuring out what parts to use out of the thread. The internet is full of information on 240sx forums reviewing what Multi-link arms, what diff, what swaybars, what coilovers, what brakes, what axles you may want to use and what they would cost. Giving a cost estimate is damn impossible, because it completely matters what YOU want. Here is some guesses on what I want/have:
Subframe Bushings: $150 -Stance
Toe, Caster, Traction links: $650 -Stance
Swaybars: $150 -? Whiteline?
Diff:$1000-Kaaz
Coilovers (full set): $1500-Stance
Z32brake swap (used): $250-Zilvia.com
Driveshaft (steel): $200
5lug swap: $100-Zilvia.com
Rick, please check out the multilink swap thread (stickied above) for differences in track width when swapping to the subframe.
If you really wanted, I'm sure you could install a completely OEM S13 subframe, with 5 lug swap and whatever R200 shortnose diff, (Open, S14 VLSD, or Z31 CLSD). I don't know if the stock struts/springs would work, I dont know how well the stock brakes would work..etc
adamvann3: (2011-03-17 22:38:54)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Here is some light reading to help familiarize yourself with the s chassis multi-link, products and information. It touches on stock, aftermarket, setups, alignment a lot of good faqs. I found it helpful when putting together the current suspension I have on my car.
http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/115916-su … n-faq.html
ShamWow: (2011-03-18 16:42:21)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
YES. The "height" or tilt of the subframe is controlled by the front extensions and there position during mounting. The top edge of the extension must be aligned with the top edge of the subframe, and this will be described in the "instructions". It will also be visible (and obvious) in the finished pictures (which should be early next week!).
Here is a "napkin sketch" of the gusset design, which will make more sense when you see this welded to my subframe:
[attachment=1:2lgzb9bk]Gusset Top.jpg[/attachment:2lgzb9bk]
[attachment=0:2lgzb9bk]Gusset Bottom.jpg[/attachment:2lgzb9bk]
nick z: (2011-03-21 03:42:50)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Deposit sent.
ShamWow: (2011-03-21 16:17:49)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
The fuel tank will need to be dropped for welding of the "C-channel" braces.
Did some final dimensioning of the kit this weekend, trying to ensure everything fits together really well for good welding, but not "too tight". Initial prototypes were a very tight fit on all components! lol. Will upload some pictures when I get a moment.
Ptowns: (2011-03-22 19:12:33)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
I guess i should prolly add my name to the list.
KevinA: (2011-03-24 17:18:37)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Just sent my $50
shromy: (2011-03-30 12:30:30)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Payment sent.
ShamWow: (2011-03-31 00:53:32)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
I have similar estimates.
I want to stress that you have 4 weeks to pay in full after completion of the kit. And as I have stated, the deposit is non-refundable. Why do I sound stingy? I am a poor college student. I can't be covering all the out of pocket on this. I don't plan on making them again.
Update on kits.. I have test fit/redesigned twice now to ensure a good fit. Thursday I am making weld jigs for the production run. Will post pictures when I have anything interesting. Still planning on April 4th as the end date for the group buy.
DudeZX: (2011-03-31 01:14:51)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
I guess I should be added to the list.
I probably won't have the subframe installed anytime soon, but I would like to acquire the kit while it is available.
StreetFighter: (2011-03-31 22:43:45)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
I can't wait to drive my car and not look like a dumb redneck with the back end all jacked up.
Mike is the man. If you all knew how much thought and effort went in to this project, you would want to pay more.
datsunzcar84: (2011-04-01 02:42:40)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Deposit sent . Add me to the list!
84Zed31: (2011-04-01 06:45:21)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Deposit sent.
nismopu: (2011-04-02 00:47:35)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Acttually, I have seen his car in a few of his photos......if his car is white that is.
86nissanZ: (2011-04-02 06:13:35)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Just sent my Deposit.
cltcmmder17: (2011-04-02 07:09:56)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Just wanted to chime in and say thanks for putting in the time and effort to bring people this option.
durtyZouth: (2011-04-02 09:25:53)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
prolly won't get to it this year cause of other projects and my z is a daily but this is definitely going on the to do list. deposit sent.
datsunzcar84: (2011-04-03 13:46:17)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Not sure when I'll get to mine either. This is one group buy I'm not missing out on!
85NA2T: (2011-04-04 21:39:28)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
deposit sent!
RXGhost: (2011-04-04 21:56:04)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
And people call us the broke and busted car guys, look at this group buy [archived image: tongue.png]
Great kit again Mike
shromy: (2011-04-04 22:36:29)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Yes he is. I love it since it can be done in a weekend, where if I was to figure it out myself it would more likely be a month. Downtime is something I cant have, since for whatever reason my z's have always been DD's.
adamvann3: (2011-04-05 00:17:55)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Alright, this has been side tracked enough. Keep on topic. I want to see progress, not sword fights
OK85ZX: (2011-04-05 04:49:50)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
We ARE broke and busted car guys… because we had to wait for a cheap/easymode kit to be made before more than a handful of people will attempt the swap! (or at least pay for it with the intentions of doing it sometime during their life)
We'll see how many follow through once they start having to click the checkout option for the rest of the subframe parts [archived image: smile.png]
aceman: (2011-04-05 04:59:38)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
[quote]OK85ZX wrote:
And people call us the broke and busted car guys, look at this group buy [archived image: tongue.png]
Great kit again Mike
We ARE broke and busted car guys… because we had to wait for a cheap/easymode kit to be made before more than a handful of people will attempt the swap! (or at least pay for it with the intentions of doing it sometime during their life)
We'll see how many follow through once they start having to click the checkout option for the rest of the subframe parts [archived image: smile.png]
I want in on this badly, but I have other things to spend money on first. The mounts, control arms, coilovers, and all else… looking at over a grand easily.
RXGhost: (2011-04-05 18:08:44)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Yeah its not cheap, I got full stance coil overs, and just purchased the full s-14 rear end with diff, still going to get the Kaaz like Mike
datsunzcar84: (2011-04-05 19:14:12)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Speed cost money lol. Gotta pay to play.
RXGhost: (2011-04-05 20:13:03)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
But it is so worth it [archived image: smile.png]
datsunzcar84: (2011-04-05 20:54:52)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Hell yeah!!! I have wanted to do this for a while now just been to lazy. Now I don't have a excuse.
DMANN: (2011-04-05 21:37:12)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
S13 subframe $100.00
Control arms $320.00
Q45 diff+axles $300.00
Alum.Z32 Knuckles $40.00
bearings+5 bolt $100.00
D2 Coilovers(rear) $200.00
Dr. Shaft $300.00
$1360.00
Budget build, finding parts, doing it myself!!!
Have Fun Doing it....priceless!!!
84Zed31: (2011-04-05 21:53:21)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Yes!
ShamWow: (2011-04-05 21:59:09)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Another breakdown:
Again, the things YOU need/want are best researched by you (and likely not on this forum).
badboyz31: (2011-04-06 00:23:38)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
the combination's are endless
My setup consists of:
q45 lsd
1 q45 axle
1 z32tt axle
q45 brakes
all solid mounts
SLP links and such
Finned diff cover
bought the whole set ready to bolt into a z31, but I like Mike G's mounting system so I'm changing things up a bit, actually to be honest I bought the whole setup from Mike D (1sickZ) for $200, one hell of a deal I must say!
RXGhost: (2011-04-06 18:39:11)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
is there any reason this would not work for the s-13 sub-frame and diff?
http://www.enjukuracing.com/greddy-diff … -7790.html
skeeter: (2011-04-06 19:39:18)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
The s14 diff cover has a 2 bolt mount setup, while the s13 has a 4 bolt mount setup. This is why you have to use the s13 diff cover when you swap a s14, J30, or q45 vlsd into a s13 sub-frame.
OK85ZX: (2011-04-06 19:43:36)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
^^^
There is probably a reason when a seller makes it a point to list it as S14 ONLY, limiting their market. A minute or two of google image searching shows the differences well [archived image: smile.png]
RXGhost: (2011-04-06 20:03:33)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
LOL I guess I should have looked for the diff cover I was just looking at the sub-frames to compare
LOL and on top of that looks like the sub-frame and diff I pulled out of a 1989 only has two bolts for the diff cover lol now this makes me wonder what I have sitting on my floor
Careless: (2011-04-07 05:18:19)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Side-note: someone needs to see if the increased capacity diff cover actually clears the gas tank on the Z31, as I imagine it may stick out a bit too much and may make contact. Even 1/4 inch of space on a hard launch might be cutting it close due to torsion, but I've never been under a car to witness how much it twists at the mounts during a launch (who has?)- especially with solid mount bushings.
but judging from this image below, it looks like there is plenty of room:
[archived image: GEDC0398.jpg]
aceman: (2011-04-07 07:54:28)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
[quote=Careless]Side-note: someone needs to see if the increased capacity diff cover actually clears the gas tank on the Z31, as I imagine it may stick out a bit too much and may make contact. Even 1/4 inch of space on a hard launch might be cutting it close due to torsion, but I've never been under a car to witness how much it twists at the mounts during a launch (who has?)- especially with solid mount bushings.
nothing a hammer cant fix
Butter: (2011-04-07 13:22:51)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
I have the Q45 cover, which is basically the same thing, and it clears just fine.
Rambo69: (2011-04-16 20:22:46)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Any word on when t his kit will be available for individual sales....or the next group buy?
MrFishHat: (2011-04-16 21:47:43)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Im sure a few people who are buying it only plan on reselling for a higher price as soon as they get it.
ShamWow: (2011-04-19 01:18:39)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
Update.
Manufacturing is well underway. I have 3 suppliers for the project, so getting everyone on the same time schedule has been interesting. Do I have finished/welded pictures for you? No.. Have I test fit it on my car? YES. Its magnificent.
Yesterday, MANY of these were made. They all look this good too.
[archived image: GEDC0439.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0441.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0440.jpg]
Careless: (2011-04-19 02:49:15)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY-Lathe Candy
Mike G for president (and prime minister, at the saaaaaame tiiiiiiiime)
nismopu: (2011-04-19 02:51:56)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY-Lathe Candy
Yous good wit da lathe dewd!
Benedict: (2011-04-19 03:17:42)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY-Lathe Candy
Awesome.
DudeZX: (2011-04-19 06:32:56)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY-Lathe Candy
Me gusta.
RXGhost: (2011-04-19 18:18:39)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY-Lathe Candy
That is awesome mike thanks again for this kit
nismopu: (2011-04-19 19:08:32)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY-Lathe Candy
Do you have the price finalized yet?
ShamWow: (2011-04-20 03:25:55)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY-Lathe Candy
^ Still awaiting quote from one of the suppliers..
XDRIFTKIDX: (2011-05-01 03:11:05)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY-Lathe Candy
do u have a musement of how long the drive shaft need to be or can you use the stock z driveshaft?
Careless: (2011-05-01 06:43:02)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY-Lathe Candy
it really depends on what kind of car you have and the shaft yolk and differential flange are different for certain trims/years as well, so you would have to have a custom longer driveshaft made that mike has not supplied measurements for.
I imagine the only one you will see when they start rolling out are the measurements mike had for his own setup- which some will mimic or he can probably refer to who made it for him.
The other sizes/types/suppliers will eventually surface as more people tackle the install successfully.
Butter: (2011-05-01 13:24:19)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY-Lathe Candy
From the multilink swap thread WHICH YOU SHOULD READ IN IT'S ENTIRETY BEFORE GOING THROUGH WITH THE SWAP....
XDRIFTKIDX: (2011-05-02 05:50:29)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY-Lathe Candy
Thanks
Wilsonthesphere: (2011-05-25 16:04:28)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY-Lathe Candy
Mike,
Any updates? I'm in no hurry or anything, i'm just curious as to how things are going. Again thanks for all the effort.
ShamWow: (2011-05-25 16:14:44)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY-Lathe Candy
Update.
Will have update put together soon. Production wraps up today and (assuming all is well) it looks like kits could be available as early as next week.
nismopu: (2011-05-25 16:58:55)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY-Lathe Candy
All this before Branson? You da man Mike! Any chance you would be delivering kits to Branson?
RXGhost: (2011-05-25 19:04:10)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY-Lathe Candy
SWEET !
I was starting to get antsy with all the cutting and welding I have been doing myself this kit is going to be the icing on the cake
adamvann3: (2011-05-25 22:40:15)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY-Lathe Candy
[quote]nismopu wrote:
Update.
Will have update put together soon. Production wraps up today and (assuming all is well) it looks like kits could be available as early as next week.All this before Branson? You da man Mike! Any chance you would be delivering kits to Branson?
Thinking the same thing.
stprasinz: (2011-05-25 22:42:53)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY-Lathe Candy
SWEETNESS!
badboyz31: (2011-06-01 05:09:42)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY-Lathe Candy
I'm so ready for this, I need it in my life!
ShamWow: (2011-06-01 20:57:12)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY-Lathe Candy
UPDATE:
Dave at Touge Factory would like to further support the development of the Z31 chassis. They have offered to sell us their aluminum subframe bushings at the discounted price of $110 if 10 people buy bushings. Normal Price is $149 on these bushings.
If you would like Touge Factory Aluminum Subframe Bushings to go with your Subframe conversion kit, please PM me here. The total will be due with the remainder of the subframe conversion kit payment. The list on page 1 will be updated with those who would like bushings.
This price is good for the standard bushings (adapting S13 subframe) as well as the offset (adapting S14/S15). Please specify which with your payment.
The subframe conversion kit is 90% done. I have not yet received the CNC plasma cut "box in" pieces for the front extensions. Please be patient, they are trying to get them finished this week.
-Mike
DudeZX: (2011-06-02 04:18:41)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY-Lathe Candy
Buy some bushings folks. You're gonna need them sooner or later, might as well take advantage of the low price…
skeeter: (2011-06-02 23:44:24)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY-Lathe Candy
Great deal on the bushing set. Too bad I was impatient and bought my set from them a month ago. I could have saved some money. In my opinion, theyâre worth the $149 I paid and I think they are definitely worth the $110 thatâs being offered now. Jump on this deal people and help support a great company that supports the z31 community.
badboyz31: (2011-06-03 00:02:42)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY-Lathe Candy
Damn it if I would have known earlier I would not have dropped all this money on SPL goodies and just bought stuff from Touge Factory!
Greasedmonkey: (2011-06-03 20:00:08)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY-Lathe Candy
Im so hoping my next check is free for me to use so that I can get in on this.
zelda: (2011-06-05 13:17:13)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY-Lathe Candy
GTFO!!!!!!! i just got a new computer, so i just got new interwebz again!!!! coincidentally i just pulled apart my s13 that had FULL suspension and got rid of the shell 8) im fuckin stoked!!!!!
ShamWow: (2011-06-08 05:21:13)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
WHY is no-one buying the STANCE bushings? This is one of few companies interested in supporting us at all? GET ON YOUR HORSE
Production wraps up tomorrow, and I have mandated supplier to provide me costing tomorrow. Kits are ready to ship by the time your reading this, get your payments ready.
Here are some progress pics of my install. I'm no pro but you get the idea.
[archived image: GEDC0520.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0519.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0521.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0533.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0536.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0543.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0559.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0551.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0575.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0585.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0597.jpg]
Careless: (2011-06-08 07:20:57)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
soooo… it's no longer a location plate from stud to stud now, using the factory diff mount studs as a point of reference?
OK85ZX: (2011-06-08 07:52:12)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
Looks like it is to me, he just cut the rest of the plate up to fill the gap between the stud plate and the support once it was aligned and tacked.
Careless: (2011-06-08 11:03:27)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
ahh good eye. that's all we would really need it for.
ideally it would be nice to have it formed to the curvature of the welding area… but not at the projected price.
looks good. gotta get stance and sub frame links now.
ShamWow: (2011-06-08 12:01:03)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
Exactly. Very difficult to form it to the complex curvature and get it welded perfectly straight.
The bar is just a template for welding. Also, given the precision of the kit and the variance in chassis/subframe, no parts come pre-welded as initially considered.
RXGhost: (2011-06-08 13:37:08)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
This is getting exciting I can't wait for it to ship
for those that have not purchased the stance bushing yet just remember were cutting out the front one and have to purchase bushing regardless
Butter: (2011-06-08 15:30:27)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
It's because these were purchased with the intent to sit on a shelf forever, never to be installed.
RXGhost: (2011-06-08 16:13:17)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
I'm working on it butter. I am currently helping 4 of my buddy's with there z31 they are not far enough along for this kit but after they drive mine I know they are going to be drooling for it
Careless: (2011-06-08 17:39:16)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
mike, please let know dave i'm in for a set of bushings for the JDM s14 subframe I have (not sure if it's different, but I Think I need the offset ones?
I have money set aside in paypal for the kit + bushings.
TearingRaven: (2011-06-08 17:59:50)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
Same here. We we we so excited!
Rambo69: (2011-06-08 18:59:18)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
have an interview with boeing on the 18th.......................hopefully I can fund my swap!
stprasinz: (2011-06-08 22:03:30)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
wait, the studs won't be welded to the cross member?
Careless: (2011-06-08 22:07:28)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
[archived image: GEDC0559.jpg]
stprasinz: (2011-06-08 22:12:21)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
the studs pictured are the ones I'm concerned with. if they aren't welded to the location template?
OK85ZX: (2011-06-08 22:25:58)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
[quote]stprasinz wrote:
Exactly. Very difficult to form it to the complex curvature and get it welded perfectly straight.
The bar is just a template for welding. Also, given the precision of the kit and the variance in chassis/subframe, no parts come pre-welded as initially considered.
the studs pictured are the ones I'm concerned with. if they aren't welded to the location template?
These? You need to be more clear.
[archived image: GEDC0519.jpg]
stprasinz: (2011-06-08 22:34:31)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
yes. the studs that are used to actually mount the s13(or 14) subframe to the plate that will be welded to the body of the car
stprasinz: (2011-06-08 22:43:51)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
and 4 posts later says nothing will be welded. that is a weld, and I'm pretty sure is crucial for the alignment of the assembly. I thought that was the only part he was going to weld in the first place. then said nothing will be!
markleemcleod: (2011-06-09 01:14:33)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
If anyone that commited to buying a Subframe conversion kit and changed there mind or doesn't have the cash please let me know and I will take your spot!
Thanks Mark McLeod
RXGhost: (2011-06-09 01:22:10)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
if you take there spot are you getting the sub-frame bushings to :P
markleemcleod: (2011-06-09 01:25:54)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
Absolutley !
OK85ZX: (2011-06-09 01:31:15)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
So you are asking about HIM welding it, vs it being welded during installation? If he says no welding, then it will probably be up to you to weld it. Why is that a problem? You will have to be welding anyways, the stud is the least of your worries, lol.
sporklift: (2011-06-09 01:34:48)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
^^^^
If you're worried about that little amount of welding how do you expect to complete the conversion?!?!
Careless: (2011-06-09 03:37:02)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
I now see what you're saying. And I'm confused now too… does "no parts will be pre-welded" mean that the front mounts are going to be just a bunch of metal templates, and we have to weld them all up, or are they going to be welded and we have to cut the front subframe mount holes and slip those in- and make some welds to just hold them on the subframe instead of actually weld up the entire piece.
If it's just a bunch of flat pieces of metal we have to weld together… then.... kinda less than what was expected.
ShamWow: (2011-06-09 04:46:20)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
Will type reply in morning.
nismopu: (2011-06-09 04:54:22)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
poor mike
stprasinz: (2011-06-09 09:21:26)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
as long as this is complete is all I wanted to know.
[archived image: GEDC0519.jpg]
its the main locator, that made this appealing to me. It "locates" the whole rear subframe.
shromy: (2011-06-09 14:30:52)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
Welding has alot to do with it, you do understand that things can be warped if welded improperly. I dont care either way, just stating a fact.
ShamWow: (2011-06-09 16:41:50)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
YOU WILL BE WELDING THINGS :tomates Thought that was clear from the beginning. This is a weld together kit, requires a lot of welding and cutting. Requires an experienced welder/fabricator for the install, though greatly simplifies install because all the parts are pre-fabbed. You will be cutting and welding and test fitting. You shouldn't need to be measuring or centering the subframe or aligning it.
Why do the rear studs not come welded?
The reason is simple, and I have already stated it. The fit between the studs and subframe must be a tight slip fit for strength. Variations in subframe and Z31 chassis mean the studs cannot be prewelded to the template as initially considered during prototype phases. The front tubes do not come pre-welded to the U-shape connectors for the same reason. Pre-welding means you will either have a sloppy fit, no fit at all, or be cutting everything apart and starting over.
To me, the impact of this change is minimal.. Maybe 5 extra minutes and 1 extra process step. Here is an example:
1.) Insert studs into subframe
2.) Lay template/rear bar over studs
3.) Weld to studs (AS PICTURED)
4.) Remove rear bar with studs attached from subframe. Bam, its now a perfect fit to YOUR subframe.
If your worried about your welding skills causing things to warp, maybe its not for you. I'm not a pro welder by any means, but as you can see, I easily welded everything together without warping or distortion. Also remember, this stuff isnt 18ga sheet metal. Its thick, strong stuff.
TearingRaven: (2011-06-09 17:03:10)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
35 of these will be sold, 5 will actually be installed [archived image: wink.png]
Careless: (2011-06-09 20:30:45)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
This is the only part I didn't see coming, but if it's a necessity then there's no other way.
Are the U-shaped parts welded up except for the tube portion? Will that be the only portion that needs to be actually welded to the "u shape" or are the top and bottom plates from the "u shape" also just cut outs that need welding?
oh, and:
20.) Careless-S14 STANCE Bushings
shromy: (2011-06-09 21:02:53)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
Everything will need to be welded.
markleemcleod: (2011-06-10 01:50:41)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
Thanks to MrKaira I now have his spot, #27. His plans changed for his Z31. And yes I will take the Stance bushings. Not sure if I need S13 or the offset S14 yet because I have to obtain the subframe for the install. :lol:
MrKaira: (2011-06-10 13:40:29)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
Plans change as in, may not even have the car when these are ready. Good luck Mark!
DeleriousZ: (2011-06-10 19:28:40)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
Can anyone else hear the sounds of ankles breaking as people jump off the bandwagon? Z31moment!
NissanXRMA: (2011-06-10 19:34:35)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
[quote]DeleriousZ wrote:
YOU WILL BE WELDING THINGSCan anyone else hear the sounds of ankles breaking as people jump off the bandwagon? Z31moment!
Sorry not everyone has an expensive welder or even the skill of welding. I can MIG and have a small MIG welder, but it's not just a Z31 thing.
You guys just love the stereotype of Z31 owner with either no money, or "OMG fabrication! I'm out!" With your shops and expensive Tig welders and Mills.
Were not all trying to do the same thing.
ShamWow: (2011-06-10 19:38:29)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-PAY YOUR BILL
Welding the studs to the bar is probably a total of 5% of the welding required to assemble the entire kit and is required for proper fitment. TIG is not required. Not sure why there are hesitant feelings about this. People almost seem ungrateful that I wasted countless hours and spent plenty of my own money to bring this to market.
Pricing is released. Final kit price is $190 shipped to continental USA. You put down a $50 deposit, this means you owe a remainder of $140. Please pay your bill (mike_Gruizinga@yahoo.com) and make sure the shipping address is correct.
I will update the list with those who would like the discounted STANCE bushings with their kit. Please pay for those as well at this time.
Thanks,
-Mike
TearingRaven: (2011-06-10 19:40:50)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
Hit a brotha up if you get unclaimed units!
ShamWow: (2011-06-10 20:22:09)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
^The only difference between now and the original post is the welding of the rear studs.
Careless: (2011-06-10 20:36:38)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
pretty much the only reason why I'm not complaining, I was just curious. and for 200 bux, it's just 8 hours I don't have to spend trying to do this shit myself, which would take more than 8 hours anyways.
time is money = save time, pay money
money is time = save money, pay time.
rather pay in money than in time.
DMANN: (2011-06-10 21:01:13)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
Wow, can't believe you peps!!!
It is as easy as it gets!!! Futher more I'm sure you U.S. guys have alot more shops and people that do portable welding, rent a welder!!!
Heck even I can get a tractor repair or tire repair guy to come out for a hour for $50.00 to weld something.
I did the swap and the only welding I had to do was boxing in the knotches and the extensions.
TearingRaven: (2011-06-10 21:02:07)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
Seems pretty cut and dry to me. Not sure what all the squauking is about....
RXGhost: (2011-06-10 23:00:30)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
this is a easy weld up, you don't have to have an expensive welder just a good one hell go rent a good welder it will cost you $100 after you get your deposit back
Butter: (2011-06-10 23:05:25)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
Meanwhile, at Chungingzhou…
[archived image: WeldersIndR_650x475.jpg]
…not afraid of welding. Taking America by storm.
badboyz31: (2011-06-10 23:17:31)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
Only reason I have backed out of getting the kit is because I could not wait and went ahead and did the install so I have the whole swap finished already, only difference with my install is where the studs are there is that plate welded all the way across on top and bottom and bolts ran all the way through with solid mounts up front, for the back and for the diff!
Gritt: (2011-06-11 01:24:00)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
did i miss the final cost amid all the whining about welding?
skeeter: (2011-06-11 01:37:23)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-PAY YOUR BILL
^ Yes you have on page 8.
RXGhost: (2011-06-11 02:29:42)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
and don't forget to get the bushings also
ShamWow: (2011-06-11 18:30:45)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
List updated as of today, 2:30pm EST.
Please include your SN with payment, otherwise it can be a little confusing.
Also please allow extra time for shipments and be patient. I work full time and am only one man.
…now off to find some packaging material in bulk!!
RXGhost: (2011-06-12 01:40:16)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
sweet we have enough for stance bushing discount [archived image: smile.png]
Greasedmonkey: (2011-06-13 02:38:20)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
I couldnt make it into the initial line up, but will this be available again? Like a second run or something to that nature. I do have access to a fabricator/welder so Im not scared.
Careless: (2011-06-13 04:20:05)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
you can buy mine for 500 bucks.
87TurboZ: (2011-06-14 20:23:08)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
If anyone backs out PM me Ive been looking to do this swap but just saw the thread :banghead and I will need the s14 conversion bushings if i could still get in on that let me know
depth: (2011-06-16 04:05:42)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GROUP BUY
If that happens, I'd like to be the someone else. . let me know
depth
ShamWow: (2011-06-16 16:34:31)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
I've had a number of people interested in more of these.
I have a couple extra kits, not sure how many. Will post on ebay for everyone to bid on after the group buy is all wrapped up.
Havn't shipped any GB parts, packaging materials are taking longer to get than expected. Hopefully the packaging shows up by the end of the week so I can start packing everything up.
If you havnt paid yet, please do so ASAP.
Greasedmonkey: (2011-06-16 22:24:55)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Pictures and WHY! pg6
Ive already stated I wanted one. I have $200 right now as well.
ShamWow: (2011-06-17 03:48:51)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Packaging and Pics
Packaging came in finally, started assembly line with 2 other guys packaging this stuff up. I think the packaging is pretty efficient, and I sprayed all the steel down with anti-corrosion oil.
Some Final pictures of kit as being boxed up:
[archived image: photo.jpg]
[archived image: Final1.jpg]
[archived image: packaging.jpg]
Did you notice I even took the time to include expensive distortion nut hardware for the rear studs? have sick party lights on this garage table for ultimate beer pong?
Greasedmonkey: (2011-06-17 04:13:48)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Packaging and Pics
I just want to be able to get mine.... Hopefully!
Careless: (2011-06-17 14:18:22)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Packaging and Pics
So TF is shipping out the bushings separately when ordered?
ShamWow: (2011-06-17 14:59:07)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Packaging and Pics
Yes stance bushings drop ship from Touge factory in Chicago. Can have stance multilink arms shipped at same time to save on shipping.
^will call Tf to get multilink pricing and update here
RXGhost: (2011-06-17 15:28:40)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Packaging and Pics
Heck yeah need prices on the arms
Hey mike do you think we need adjustable lower arms? i know stance doesn't make them
84Zed31: (2011-06-19 03:59:48)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Packaging and Pics
Please don't give up my kit [archived image: frown.png], i could have the rest of the money by next week. I'm short on cash right now.
Greasedmonkey: (2011-06-20 04:29:27)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Packaging and Pics
Im ready to take anyones spot that cant pay.
tfdave: (2011-06-20 15:38:12)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Packaging and Pics
[quote]Careless wrote:
Packaging came in finally, started assembly line with 2 other guys packaging this stuff up. I think the packaging is pretty efficient, and I sprayed all the steel down with anti-corrosion oil.
So TF is shipping out the bushings separately when ordered?
Yes, Once Mike gives us the final order, we will ship directly from here.
tfdave: (2011-06-20 15:40:29)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Packaging and Pics
I can get you Megan Lower arms http://www.meganracing.com/product_deta … 9&catid=26
$400 shipped
Thanks
-David
RXGhost: (2011-06-20 16:35:16)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Packaging and Pics
Is that something you just want us to contact you directly for?
ShamWow: (2011-06-20 16:39:57)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Packaging and Pics
Touge Factory is again giving us a deal on their parts. Anyone who buys the subframe swap kit is eligible for special group buy pricing… Check http://www.stance-usa.com/sus/ for more information on STANCE's multi-link components. They use quality Aurora teflon lined heims. They are professionally TIG welded. This is the setup I decided on for my personal car; the quality is excellent.
Pricing on Multi-link from STANCE (including shipping to USA):
Stance Rear upper control arm (S13/S14 same) -$230 (MSRP $280)
Stance Rear Toe arm (Must specify S13 or S14) - $200 (MSRP $240)
Stance Rear Traction arm (S13/S14 same) - $190 (MSRP $230)
[archived image: stnc-240SX-RUCA.jpg]
Send payment for links to Mike_Gruizinga@yahoo.com The links will drop ship to your address and if you ordered STANCE bushings they will likely ship together.
RXGhost: (2011-06-20 17:54:21)
This kit just keeps getting better and better and the boys at Stance are really taking care of us, I really hope everyone is supporting them the same as I am [archived image: smile.png]
nismopu: (2011-06-20 18:26:43)
You can't build these components for these prices, lol!
tfdave: (2011-06-20 23:46:47)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-Packaging and Pics
[quote]RXGhost wrote:
RXGhost - Yes, Please contact me directly. david(at)tougefactory(dot)com or 847-290-1531
tfdave: (2011-06-20 23:56:08)
Want to add some more info on Stance links.
The most important part of aftermarket suspension links are the rod ends. Aurora spherical rod ends are one of the most expensive and high quality rod ends on the market, and for good reason. Aurora ends are used in both military and NASA applications. There is no other rod end that can match the quality, precision and durability of Aurora's rod ends. The Stance links use Aurora's strongest billet 3 piece rod end bearings. Aurora bearings use a sintered steel ball to handle extremely high loads. Rod ends feature special chemical bonded PTFE liners for smooth operation, less noise, and long life. The rod end housings are heat treated and zinc coated for strength and durability. Our rod ends offer a high misalignment angle for extreme performance.
The Aurora Rod ends we use have radial static load of 32223 N, which equates to 7244 lbs-force. It's a 3-piece design with hardened steel. It also has 52degrees of misalignment angle, specifically for automotive use. If you were to buy these bearings from Aurora, it'll cost you $65/ea, just to give you an idea.
-David
nismopu: (2011-06-21 00:40:20)
You have to pay for quality! The PTFE lining keeps things nice and quiet as well, where as the chinese high angle ones don't use lined bearings at all causing slop/noise. [archived image: frown.png]
DudeZX: (2011-06-21 01:59:16)
I'm going to hang myself by my feet and see if enough change comes out of my pockets to get in on the multi-link group buy…
300zxturboftw: (2011-06-21 02:47:36)
If STANCE didn't empty my pockets already with teh coilovers I would be all for everything. Looks like I know what to save for now. Do it now so you don't regret it later lol
DudeZX: (2011-06-21 03:17:41)
I have been trying to save up for coils, but I would rather take advantage of these deals while they are available. I know it will pay off in the long run.
84Zed31: (2011-06-21 07:32:08)
Once I pay for the adapter kit this saturday, ill be scouring my friends garages for extra s13 subframes. :lol:
markleemcleod: (2011-06-27 02:34:51)
Thanks again Mike for all your hard work on producing this great kit ! And for the great deal on the Stance multilink group buy.
Is there any chance on a group buy for Stance Coilovers too? :lol: I would definatly be in on that group buy also !
roastin300: (2011-06-28 18:32:37)
Man I really want those links now. I cant pinch that much money out of my butt though. I have been checkin out the GODSPEED links, they are cheap cheap. Wonder how well they perform/last?
RXGhost: (2011-06-28 20:34:49)
in comparison they look pretty cheap to me, i would just buy the links as you can and as you go before settling on a lesser product
DMANN: (2011-06-28 20:49:40)
I have the Godspeed links on mine, they are okay(cheap), the stances are awesome though.
If you live in a nice climatized area they will be okay, driving in other weather conditions, I would inspect weekly.
FYI if you get Godspeed links use LOTS of oil to lubricate all areas on links including bolts and nuts(trust me)!!!
Wilsonthesphere: (2011-06-29 13:32:10)
Mike,
Any idea when these will ship? I just want to make sure when to except them and to be sure they were not lost by the shipper or something. Again no hurry from me i still have some projects ahead of my Z to finish.
ShamWow: (2011-06-29 15:58:41)
On page 1, if you are marked shipped, your package will go out today or tomorrow. If you are not marked shipped, you either havnt paid or im still processing your payment
RXGhost: (2011-06-29 17:35:53)
looking at the front screen a lot of people have payed for there kits so far this is promising, goes to show you made a good kit Mike
OK85ZX: (2011-06-30 00:53:05)
Received the bushings today from TF for the group buy. Very sexy.
DudeZX: (2011-06-30 02:14:07)
Same here. Good stuff.
[archived image: 0629111831.jpg]
adamvann3: (2011-06-30 04:12:07)
Purdy, they even tossed in a little sparkle sparkle
RXGhost: (2011-06-30 15:04:53)
some times I hate being in Colorado everything i order comes from the east coast or the west coast and always maxes out at the 3 days shipping :P hopefully I get mine today :P
RXGhost: (2011-06-30 18:44:09)
Wouldn't surprise me the shipping company around here always seem like deers in the headlights when ever i have to call them
roastin300: (2011-06-30 19:27:50)
I'm in Colorado and I just received my 2 sets of bushings from TF....nice lookin stuff
RXGhost: (2011-06-30 19:34:02)
Yeah i haven't got home yet today but I am getting shifty i hope its there when I get home :P
DudeZX: (2011-07-01 00:13:48)
I'm pretty sure my STANCE links arrived today. Unfortunately, they are locked up inside the office at my condo because I missed the UPS guy. I have to wait until tommorow to pick them up :-? …
RXGhost: (2011-07-01 03:22:50)
got my bushings this is starting to look like this car is going to get me in trouble soon
ShamWow: (2011-07-01 03:23:09)
Wow you guys are more excited than i thought. Guess i better get some form of install guide or pics together. Dont expect too much, i wont hold your hand.
datsunzcar84: (2011-07-01 03:52:20)
awww come on why not?
RXGhost: (2011-07-01 07:59:39)
wait were not having a holding hand party. . . . . wth
I already have the frame cut, sandblasted and the back of the car ready to slap it in. don't need to hold my hand but I might need a . . . . .cloth after
Butter: (2011-07-01 11:26:25)
IN for the HJ party.
RXGhost: (2011-07-01 14:04:58)
You know butter with this many kits being sent out you might get your wish of a fleet of z31's with S-13 rear ends
Greasedmonkey: (2011-07-02 03:51:59)
Im waiting for the extras to be put up so I can get one. I hate waiting…
DudeZX: (2011-07-05 23:21:32)
Waddup subframe conversion kit?
[archived image: 0705111815.jpg]
OK85ZX: (2011-07-05 23:43:35)
Got mine as well. Word.
shromy: (2011-07-05 23:45:30)
Still waiting :-( .
ShamWow: (2011-07-06 00:16:44)
Here's how the rear studs look finished up:
[archived image: GEDC0603.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0606.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0621.jpg]
Front of subframe. There is a cap on the bottom of this as well. Welding isn't the greatest.:
[archived image: GEDC0571.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0573.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0593.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0608.jpg]
Painted sparkly urethane purple, tons of blue and red pearl. Check the gussets on the camber mounts and across the main spar.
[archived image: GEDC0623.jpg]
These aren't the rear brake rotors I am using, just mockup.
[archived image: GEDC0610.jpg]
RXGhost: (2011-07-06 13:35:07)
very nice Mike
depth: (2011-07-06 19:28:56)
Nice, anymore pics of the rear over fenders?
DMANN: (2011-07-06 21:54:42)
Wow, that is a tight fit.
I have 26x8.5x15" slicks and still have at least 1-2" of gap between the tire and fender.
RXGhost: (2011-07-07 00:16:56)
rofl they didn't leave it at my door they took it back to the post office dirty mail service
RedDemon: (2011-07-08 00:04:06)
So, how much further out did the subframe push your wheels?
RXGhost: (2011-07-08 00:46:21)
z31 rear is 1435mm in the rear
s-13 rear 57.5"/ 1461mm
s-14 rear 57.5:/ 1470mm
Careless: (2011-07-08 04:13:17)
just curious. friend of mine has a set of s13 bushings that are chillaxin in a box of parts for a car he doesnt have anymore. I'm pretty sure I can snag them for free (but would gladly pay for the s14 offset ones if budget permits).
is it possible to just bring the mounts inward more to forgo the use of the offset bushings. or does using the offset bushings push the mount holes further outward?
OK85ZX: (2011-07-08 05:02:05)
'slike 3 seconds on google. http://www.splparts.com/instructions/SPL_SSB_S13C.pdf
Careless: (2011-07-08 06:16:28)
thanks.
since the s13 subframe requires no offset bushings for this mikeg kit, then it's as if the z31 is the s13… and I'm trying to put the s14 bushings.... soooooo, it would work for the front- but the rears I can't move inboard to compensate for lack of offset bushings, anyway. didn't know the rear also needed offset bushings.
so forget that idea.
but thanks again.
OK85ZX: (2011-07-08 19:56:17)
[archived image: smile.png]
But, if you get them for free, you could always backyard engineer them by drilling a new hole and filling in the old?
Rambo69: (2011-07-09 15:17:51)
eehhh, just about as safe as trying to TIG repair a cheap alloy wheel.....so much load & stress on these parts…might as well just buy the right parts....
markleemcleod: (2011-07-10 16:43:16)
Look at this bad ass shit !!! Got it yesterday in the mail . Thanks Mike for the great buy with the group discount ! Still waiting for the Stance bushings and the custom Mike G conversion kit. Will be ordering some coilovers soon. I dont know if I should wait for the new Z31 coilovers or just buy the s13's. I already bought the racinjitter rear adapter plates. I also scored a Q45 diff and drivers side axle, and I have a lead on a Twin Turbo axle I'm going to check out later today. So im almost ready to go LOW !
[archived image: IMG_4874.jpg]
[archived image: IMG_4876.jpg]
ZFast88Z: (2011-07-10 22:26:25)
I feel like my exclusivity in the bad ass linked S13 rear suspension club is decreasing…And I like it.
Careless: (2011-07-10 22:30:32)
good point- but he'll probably give them to my other friend who can use them, so I'll just buy the proper ones.
zengineer: (2011-07-13 06:50:14)
Any leftovers?
Greasedmonkey: (2011-07-17 03:23:26)
He said there were, and would put them up on EBay when all the claimed ones sell.
Careless: (2011-07-21 14:37:48)
sooo uhhhhhh…
what about those that paid in full but haven't been notified of shipment / changed on first page?
Blown-N-Boosted: (2011-07-21 15:29:19)
+1[archived image: smile.png] Curious myself. Tired of watching the mail.
ShamWow: (2011-07-21 15:56:05)
Late payment=Late shipment (significantly delayed).
If your payment was on time, your shipment should have arrived in a timely manner. If your payment was late, your shipment probably will ship this week.
ALSO, if you require international shipping, you have automatically been moved to the bottom of my TBS list, and your package has not been sent yet.
Careless: (2011-07-21 16:33:20)
meany.
DMANN: (2011-07-21 21:19:11)
Because Michigan is soo far away from Ontario…LOL
OK85ZX: (2011-07-21 21:37:46)
Knowing the mail system it will probably be routed through cali, to dallas, orlando, NC, then PA before it crosses the border and makes pit stop in calgary before landing in ontario. Thus, fail to save on shipping.
DMANN: (2011-07-21 21:40:15)
LOL, Actually it should go to New York, then either held up at the border for 2-3 weeks, then Toronto.
84Zed31: (2011-07-22 00:22:37)
[quote]Careless wrote:
ALSO, if you require international shipping, you have automatically been moved to the bottom of my TBS list, and your package has not been sent yet.
meany.
LOL
Butter: (2011-07-22 12:52:15)
So how many of you guys are done......?
markleemcleod: (2011-07-22 14:18:44)
Still waiting on my kit....
RXGhost: (2011-07-22 14:55:56)
I am half way done with mine I am waiting for some of the arms from stance ( i am broke as a joke so buying them as i can :P )
TearingRaven: (2011-07-22 21:05:07)
Mike, take your time on my kit, no rush brosef!
Butter: (2011-07-23 18:28:11)
Sounds like Z-Bum is going to be the 1st by his maniacal laughter.
300zxturboftw: (2011-07-25 00:37:58)
Mine's on pre-order for 2013
DudeZX: (2011-07-25 04:01:22)
Waiting on Z31 Stance coils and moar cash.
Gritt: (2011-07-25 17:33:00)
still havn`t even opened the box. since my father in law died recently, i have been tasked with clearing out his stuff. i highly respect the man, however, he was a borderline hoarder. so far, a 12x8 enclosed trailer of stuff to the local masons for them to sell/give to charity as they see fit, a 12x8 you fill/we haul bag from home depot, just filled a tow behind dump trailer and i still have to finish the second shed (where all the tools are), the garage, the interior laundry room and then there is still the old garage space with a tube fame 69 mustang they were building. anybody want to buy a Frankland quick change rear end? i make you good offer…
needless to say, the z is on hold. again.
ShamWow: (2011-08-01 01:30:56)
Below are some instructions I put together for installing the kit. Let me know if you have any questions. This stuff is mostly self explanatory/learn as you go, but I figured I would at least show the steps I took.
â¢Read through all steps before starting
â¢Good welding skills are required. 220v MIG welder is suitable. TIG is recommended
Kit Contents:
[archived image: KitComponents.jpg]
Procedure
1. Remove Z31 components:
a.Rear suspension/driveline
b.Fuel tank
c.Exhaust
2. Completely strip your subframe of all bolted on components. Save all components and hardware.
3. Remove OEM rubber bushings from subframe using your preferred method.
a.I suggest using a torch (MAP or Oxy-acetylene) to burn out the rubber bushings
b.Clean out any rubber or paint
4.Cut the front mount of the subframe in half per picture below. A hacksaw works fine. [archived image: GEDC0400.jpg]
5.At this point, I recommend media-blasting the entire subframe so itâs nice and clean. At minimum you will need to clean the front mount for welding
6.Install your rear bushings
a.Depending on brand, these will likely be a light press fit into the subframe
b.If using offset bushings, be sure to align them properly before pressing in
7.Test fit rear bar
a.bar should fit up onto OEM Z31 diff mount studs
b.This is a precision fit, and not all chassis are identical. In some cases, holes in rear bar may need slight filling to fit over OEM diff mount studs
8.Weld rear studs to bar
a.Drop studs into rear bushings on subframe, thread side down
b.Lay rear bar across studs, aligning large holes in rear bar with stud head. Orientation is not important.
c.Perform fillet weld between studs and rear bar on top side only.
[archived image: GEDC0532.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0520.jpg]
9. Install your front bushings into the tubes
a.Again, depending on brand, these will likely be a press fit into the tubes.
b.I used a hydraulic shop press for my STANCE bushings. Itâs designed to be a tight fit.
10. Test fit subframe/rear bar assembly into chassis
a.Install rear bar/studs assembly into subframe with C-channel pieces.
[archived image: GEDC0394.jpg]
b.Lift subframe into car and align holes in rear bar with OEM diff mount studs. Support subframe in this location.
c.Raise front of subframe into approximate location for fitting up front extensions.
d.You may need to hammer/clearance a bit of the chassis underside for the subframe humps (axle pass through humps)
11. Notch chassis of Z31- This is where some thinking and trial and error is required on your part
a.You need to notch accordingly so that the front mount will align to the OEM chassis stud as shown below. Note the OEM rubber disk is retained at the top of the mount, and the OEM lower bracket is retained under the mount.
b.Note that the U-shape pieces must be aligned with the bottom of the tube, and the top of the subframe âcupâ This sets subframe tilt and varies your anti-squat.
[archived image: Alignment.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0551.jpg]
c.Here is an example of the notching I did to achieve clearance. Notice the large notches for the camber and traction rod arms. If these arenât properly sized/place the arms will hit the chassis during suspension movement.
[archived image: GEDC0621.jpg]
d.Mark the areas which need notching, remove the subframe, and cut the notches. Do not weld them shut until your final assembly. Continue to test fit/remove/notch until you can get your front extensions to align as shown in step 11b.
12. Weld it in
a.With the subframe in the car and the front extensions aligned per step 11b, tack weld the U-shape piece to the subframe. Tack weld the tube to the U-shape piece. Also tack weld the rear bar into the car (do not weld the C-channels yet).
b.Remove the subframe from the car and finish welding the front extensions. Apply the top and bottom gussets to box in the front extensions
[archived image: GEDC0571.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0573.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0593.jpg]
c.Cut the rear bar down and finish welding it in
[archived image: GEDC0536.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0559.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0603.jpg]
d.Throughout that whole process ^ I suggest doing about a million test fits and alignment checks. If your welding warps something or the alignment is off, the subframe will be very difficult to align and lift into place.
13. Finish your notches
a.Lift your subframe into place and install as if the job is done. Begin attaching the arms and swinging them through their travel. This will identify further notching required.
b.Remove everything again and weld up your notches. I bent up 16ga steel into C-shape pieces to fit into the ânotchâ and welded them solid.
14. Secure the subframe
a.Paint your subframe so it doesnât rust. Paint the underside of your chassis too.
b.Coat the front and rear studs with Anti-seize and lift the subframe into place. Torque down the included fasteners onto the rear studs. Re-use the OEM hardware up front.
c.Begin attaching all of your arms, install the diff, brakes, put the gas tank back in, measure for a custom driveshaft, etc etc.
Careless: (2011-08-01 03:01:05)
OEM Rubber disc? Shit… Threw those away and kept the metal portion for subframe bushing install:
Here's the part on courtesy nissan:
http://www.courtesyparts.com/55464-stop … 48528.html
DMANN: (2011-08-01 21:10:18)
Come-on now you should never through anything away you might use.LOL
I kept mine and reused them as Mike stated.
At the time I did mine I used SPL bushings and they came with rubbers.
Careless: (2011-08-01 22:08:22)
JUST ASKING A QUESTION:
Mike, I'm not sure if this makes a difference- but since the rear has the stud locating bar that uses the factory diff holes… shouldn't the rear be welded up before determining the angle/placement of the front tubes, which have more room for error? In your instructions, you did the fronts first, and that seems backwards because of the location plate.
OK85ZX: (2011-08-01 22:32:22)
What would welding it help? It is located using the old diff studs, it will be a tight fit, so it's not going anywhere.
ShamWow: (2011-08-01 23:25:39)
You need to tack both in place at the same time. With the subframe in the car and supported, tack the rear bar and front extensions in place. Then remove subframe and weld remainder.
I recommend a series of test fits between tack and weld, get it perfect. Also, always strip the subframe down to install it, so its easy to manuever. 2 people makes it much easier to lift into place also.
Rambo69: (2011-08-01 23:34:35)
soo ready for this kit to be on the "Public Market"......
FML
84Zed31: (2011-08-02 00:44:24)
- super Nice!
DMANN: (2011-08-02 00:46:11)
I used a tranny jack and tie straps to do this conversion and a measuring tape.
You will like it when it is done, Don't over think it.
I did mine different, because there was no kit.
Good job Mike.
Careless: (2011-08-02 03:10:34)
Not sure if you noticed in the instructions, but during the final stages when the finish welds are made- the fronts are done first and the rear is no longer centered using the bar at the back- all that's holding it is the tack weld on the opposite side of where there could be some movement…
It's just a suggestion- I was thinking maybe the rears should be welded in completely first since as you said, it will be a tight fit.
OK85ZX: (2011-08-02 03:15:11)
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying, but my response to what I think you are saying is: If you are worried about something loosening and becoming unaligned post tac welding, then your tac welds are the problem and not the order of steps you are doing.
Careless: (2011-08-02 03:31:30)
Like you said, tight fit- Rears should be welded completely and tested once more before finish welding the front due to more complexity of front parts. I think that makes a bit more sense. But I'm not here to argue. I know how to weld fine. And that's why I suggested it.
84Zed31: (2011-08-02 03:48:41)
I get what you're saying, because the rears already have a set place to weld. I'm going to do it that way. Tack in the rear bar on to the chassis, place in and align subframe, tack in fronts, remove and weld. If that makes any sense, haha.
ShamWow: (2011-08-03 16:49:53)
These are dumb comments that no one installing this kit should care about. You guys are space shuttling. If you bought the kit and are seriously considering installing it, you must be competent enough to weld it in without any of my instruction. I merely posted to show you how I did it, or how I would suggest doing it. Here is one of my post tack, pre weld test fits:
[archived image: GEDC0543.jpg]
There are hundreds of other details that won't or shouldn't be explained. You will figure it out as you go.
RXGhost: (2011-08-03 17:35:41)
got mine all welded up thanks for the kit mike ill post some pictures up once I get it painted and cleaned up
ShamWow: (2011-08-04 01:54:58)
Update, shipped most remaining kits out yesterday. Remaining kits are Canada (requires special trip to UPS store) and a couple late payers.
NIVO: (2011-08-04 21:36:37)
pretty cool, how did I miss this?
MrFishHat: (2011-08-05 21:46:28)
Mine got here this morning! Thanks a bunch MikeG
RedDemon: (2011-08-07 14:18:23)
I got a couple of quick question.
In step 11, you said to install the front bushings for test fit and tac welding. Then in step 12, I noticed youâve removed the bushings for the full welding. Can one keep the bushings in and do the full weld or will there be too much heat going through the bushing that is may deform it? I saw video of a guy installing solid bushings into his s13 subframe and the tolerances were so tight that tiny shaving of the bushing were flying off as he was pressing it in. So, Iâm wondering, are the front tube so tight that when you do take out the bushing, it is technically the tiniest bit smaller and thus not as tight the second time you go to put it in and how were you able to press the bushings out when you didnât have access to the top of it (since you have the S13 bushings and not the S14->S13 bushings)?
DMANN: (2011-08-07 15:30:13)
I don't know about the stance bushings. I used SPL and just threw them in the freezer for a bit.
Then used a piece of wood and a hammer and tapped lightly and went right in.
nismopu: (2011-08-07 15:30:48)
Got mine thursday and it looks awesome Mike G, I must say whomever cut the threads on the studs did an awesome job!
RXGhost: (2011-08-07 15:36:46)
I did what Dmann did to get them in just left the bushings in the freezer over night, after I tacked everything up i took a torch and heated the outside of the sleeve that the bushings were in well having a wet rag down the center and over a good portion of the bushings and they came right out with a few taps and didn't take any extra metal off the bushings
ShamWow: (2011-08-07 16:46:56)
^Thanks. They were CNC machined by a friend. This guy is the best machinist I have ever seen, his work is always flawless, or he throws it away and starts over.
^Good question. The pictures are a bit confusing on this, so lets go over the details.
- The tubes were designed around the OEM ones. They are the same size as OEM, and extremely accurate in their machining. I measured them myself and found them to be very well toleranced (perhaps ±.001")
- To my knowledge, all aftermarket and OEM bushings and are a press fit for these subframes. You may notice during this press fit that some of the anodizing or aluminum may "shave off". This is normal. You can do things like freezing and heating to get them to press in easier if you want, but I don't feel its necessary. I suggest using a standard shop style press (H-beam) to install the bushings. This is the easiest and fastest method.
- You will need the bushings installed in order to test fit and tack everything together. There is no getting around this.
- Doing the final welding with the bushing installed is fine IF you are using aluminum bushings. They will not deform; they are very thick aluminum. If you are using rubber or polyurethane bushings, obviously you will have to press them out before final welding, because they will be damaged. For this reason I recommend Aluminum bushings. Aluminum also integrates the subframe to your chassis, bracing it and reducing chassis flex.
Careless: (2011-08-07 17:48:05)
Stupid question:
I know the struts shouldn't be taking the weight of the vehicle without a coil spring, but is it possible to bolt up the stock z31 strut to the s14 subframe once installed so I can at least wheel this thing around my driveway? It would be rolling around bottomed out, obviously…
I have some time to install this if it gets here any time soon, between now and when stance arrives. Just need a way to roll it around if I need to.
shromy: (2011-08-07 17:55:07)
they will bolt in just slack in the mounting point since the s chassis uses a thicker bolt. hence the need for the lower adapter if using the z31 subframe. Dont see it causing an issue to roll it around.
ShamWow: (2011-08-08 02:55:12)
[archived image: GEDC0628.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0634.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0646.jpg]
[archived image: GEDC0657.jpg]
Check out the notching at work:
[archived image: GEDC0660.jpg]
Had to grind this down a bit for clearance on the coilover:
[archived image: GEDC0652.jpg]
Rolled out for a bath, first time moving in a long time..
[archived image: GEDC0663.jpg]
Careless: (2011-08-08 03:28:20)
driver side no widebody?
ShamWow: (2011-08-08 03:34:38)
Prototype phase using CLECO fasteners for quick removal. Did not want to saturate with water during bath. Engine bay got a good scrub out.
RXGhost: (2011-08-12 14:03:19)
after some inspection of my knuckles my bushings a little shabby i think these are the next upgrade but holy crap that is a lot for bushings
http://www.splprosuspension.com/SPL_RKB_S13.html
Careless: (2011-08-12 14:31:13)
could use these for now:
http://www.frsport.com/Energy-7-3115R-R … 21152.html
Butter: (2011-08-12 15:36:49)
Those are for the stock arms, not the knuckle.
RXGhost: (2011-08-12 17:23:03)
[quote]Careless wrote:
after some inspection of my knuckles my bushings a little shabby i think these are the next upgrade but holy crap that is a lot for bushings
http://www.splprosuspension.com/SPL_RKB_S13.html
could use these for now:
yeah I was hoping that also but its just for the arms, already got that kit i needed it any way for the lower control arm but no knuckle bushings as butters said
Careless: (2011-08-12 17:50:01)
http://dev3.ben-turner.net/product.php?id_product=215
250 bucks here. But that looks like it's for one side? gahd damn. the monoballs are 450 a side then? sheeeeeeesh. steel inserts and forget aboot it.
Butter: (2011-08-12 17:56:16)
Are they really that bad? I've never seen those go bad. Probably cheaper just buying another upright from the yard.
Careless: (2011-08-12 18:03:10)
The factory ones are supposed to be pretty tight, from what my S14 ones feel like. I'm pretty sure they're not the slightly stiffer nismo ones either… But I think that subframe has less than 50,000 miles on it. It would be a heck of a lot cheaper to get a new upright and even replace the hardware while you're at it.
RXGhost: (2011-08-12 18:50:55)
my left upper bushing, the steel shank can wiggle in the rubber and has very slight left and right play,
looking at that kit you posted careless it has 4 bushings? that is a little weird is 3 per knuckle
o well i think ill get them anyway if nothing else it will let the arms pivot fully with out binding and will stiffen it up slightly i have to grind the knuckle anyway because its hitting just slightly
Careless: (2011-08-13 23:33:50)
I see this as a couple of options here. Z32 aluminum uprights lower unsprung weight… Might come with good bushings.
This might be better to save some cash and have OEM type bushings.
http://www.meganracing.com/product.asp? … 8&catid=26
The same bushings you posted are available from Ikeya Formula for less, but still per side, I believe:
http://www.nengun.com/ikeya-formula/rea … illow-bush
EDIT: Ikeya Formula and SPL bushings are for BOTH sides, as it comes with 6 bushings for 370 as I've seen on another site. Just be sure to specify hicas or non-hicas, as the OD of some or all of the bushings will be 29 or 32mm depending on that (as read on another site).
And the poly ones I posted were missing one bushing, so I'm not sure if those are a good purchase.
RXGhost: (2011-08-14 20:06:38)
cool site more info is always cool its very lame that the non hicas knuckles are 452 though
Careless: (2011-08-15 02:08:33)
now that you bring that up. the reason the other sets have two bushings per side is because it's meant for hicas equipped subframes.
hicas toe adjustment rods use a balljoint in place of the bushing. and I believe that's why there are only 4 complete bushings total, and the non-hicas versions are more expensive due to the other two bushings.
I wonder if stance makes an eliminator bar or has one in the works. I would buy that with the rest of the stuff since my subframe has the electronic hicas module.
or i could hook it up. first z31 with hicas? lulz.
datsunzcar84: (2011-08-15 02:37:06)
How is the hicas controlled ?
Careless: (2011-08-15 02:50:11)
by computer controlled module.
not part of this thread anyway. currently interested to know if an eliminator bar works or if the hicas now makes the s14 rear subframe a bit different to install using this kit (all s14 come with hicas mounted outboard of the subframe, so i think it doesn't… only the provision for the knuckle is different I guess). bet the pump is in the way of the fuel tank, so i'll have to remove it either way.
I'll have to dig in further or tackle that when i get there.
DMANN: (2011-08-15 10:27:01)
I have a hicas eliminator bar if you need one…got it but never used it…
I looked at a non-hicas and a hicas frame and welded some steel tabs on the subframe and used the regular toe arms.
RXGhost: (2011-08-15 14:35:43)
The sub frames are slightly different but the mounting points are the same so the kit would not be a problem the sub frame only changes the lower points below the mounts
looks like the steering gear might get in the way of our fuel tank though if you use hicas
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c … AS_001.jpg
here is some eliminators
http://photography.timtrott.co.uk/galle … it-r33.jpg
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k141/ … eM3014.jpg
Careless: (2011-08-30 23:04:11)
thnx… looks like i'll just remove the pump and use DMANN's eliminator bar in the following weeks. I want to find a diff and put my links back on so I can install this thing (if it ever gets to my house?).
roastin300: (2011-09-01 20:43:01)
Can the STANCE links still be purchased at that price?
ShamWow: (2011-09-01 21:27:23)
Yes sir. Links, bushings, suspension, whatever you need.
RedDemon: (2011-09-19 02:00:41)
Here are pictures of the S14 swap which has taken my friend and I just over 30 hours and we're still not 100% complete.
First step was to get the bushings pressed in and the rear bar/studs welded
The subframe is 90% finished. I've test fitted all the arms and I think I have one more day worth of work and it'll be 100% complete. I have to trim a bit of metal off where the RUCA bolt to the subframe and then box the notches + paint to prevent rust.
This is with the max low (RUCA hitting the chassis)
and my favorite shot :-)
- Note: For those using s14 subframes.
-You will need to grind off a bit off of the top rubber stopper that goes over the front extension tubes to take into consideration the offset bushings.
-You will have to make two cuts for the front mount of the subframe, First cut it to take off half of it as Mike shows in his installation and one to the inside of the mount at a different angle, since the subframe is wider (refer to the pictures at the top)
-I'm not sure how much of a difference the hump size of the s13 vs. the s14, but I had to go to town on the transmission tunnel, where it tapers off, to make enough room for the subframe to be bolted and to have a half inch of clearance.
Again, thank you Mike for putting this together. It was certainly a great learning curve for me with welding :-D
Careless: (2011-09-19 04:06:35)
noiiiiice
DeleriousZ: (2011-09-19 04:36:43)
is how it should look all the time
RedDemon: (2011-09-19 12:12:53)
Yup I agree, that's why i'll be cutting off more metal off.
ShamWow: (2011-09-19 16:48:45)
You do not want it bottoming out at that height. Bottom should be when the toe rod smashes into the offset bushing and bends the toe rod. Then you get angled toe rods from STANCE or PBM and try again.
^Great install. Looks good. Yes some hammering of the floor/trans tunnel is required for the "hump"
EDIT: Wanted to add:
That picture of it at MAX low is awesome. Car is tucking tire, but subframe lower control arm is still flat (not angled up). Have you ever seen the geometry on a lowered 240sx? all arms pointed at the sky, toe/camber gain curves are steep.
On Z31, car can be lowered 3-4" from stock, and S-subframe geometry remains excellent.
Careless: (2011-09-19 18:34:33)
i haven't done the math, but I wonder if a 2+2 driveshaft will fit without modification :quoi
roastin300: (2011-09-20 04:51:43)
Got me some links finally! All 3 sets of STANCE links. Boo ya. Now waiting to pay for my coilovers :twisted:
Just finished my 13" big brake upgrade as well. Rear brakes will be Z32 2 piston calipers and rotors when I do the S13 subframe. Also already have the Z32 master cylinder ready to roll. So I am getting my ass to the autocross very soon....no excuses now.
Careless: (2011-09-20 18:31:20)
anyone know if q45 subframe will work with this stuffs?
Careless: (2011-09-21 10:23:14)
[archived image: GEDC0543.jpg]
are you missing top sides of the bushings here?
ShamWow: (2011-09-21 12:51:19)
The offset bushings and all the new stance bushings are 1pc and single flanged. Raises the subframe about 10mm for roll center correction. Requires more enthusiasm with the notches. Also the front oe z31 lower bracket needs a little spacer or some bending
Your other questions dont seem relevant and i dont have the answers. Search google for q45 subframe dimensions and 2+2 driveshaft lengths.
Careless: (2011-09-21 14:04:06)
i did, and i only found differential information. sorry for the irrelevancy.
roastin300: (2011-09-21 16:20:00)
Wait…so there is a noticeable performance difference by using the new bushing type to get the subframe tucked up further in the body?
ShamWow: (2011-09-21 16:36:07)
Anything you can do to get the subframe tucked up higher will help suspension geometry on a lowered car.
Since this group buys end, STANCE has released new bushings which look like the above ones, 1 pc and single sided. Many other companies have been offering similar options for several years.
Obviously if you already have the old stance bushings (sold with the group buy) you could cut them down.
roastin300: (2011-09-21 23:14:34)
I will probably be cutting them down then....
Can you explain a little more what you mean about the spacer or bending on the mount? I will see this I am sure when I go to do it, and make it work. But I am curious what you are trying to say.
Careless: (2011-09-21 23:21:27)
The keyhole shaped OEM Z31 "subframe stay" plates that bolt under the subframe bushings and connect to the two bolts that feed through the floorpan right behind the driver seats will need to have the space between the bushing and itself made up due to the shorter mount height/lack of top flange.
roastin300: (2011-09-21 23:49:18)
Thanks careless.....I dont know why I had to read that 8 times to understand. I feel like a dumb dumb. The stud is so long and the threads are so long, when it sits further up in there, the threads now dont go all the way to the subframe ya? So I need to chop down 4 of the 8 bushings to get where I need to. Maybe I should just buy new ones and sell my old ones.
Can I get the cut ones for the group buy price? Or is that pricing over with? Thanks
Careless: Check your PM's regarding your Holset questions you had 8)
ShamWow: (2011-09-21 23:55:57)
Here, look at this picture of the front mount. Side view:
[archived image: Alignment.jpg]
If your bushing no longer has the top flange, then the subframe assembly will sit closer to the chassis. There will now be a space between the lower bracket and the flange of the bushing.
Yes, you can buy the new bushings at the GB pricing. Please PM me.
roastin300: (2011-09-22 01:18:03)
I could cut it off and put it on the other side where there is a space. That little bracket isnt really needed though anyways other than acting as a large washer to tighten down to the main stud thats there.
adamvann3: (2011-10-18 13:31:20)
Alright now that some time has gone and everyone is busy installing, where are people ordering their new drive shafts from?
Butter: (2011-10-18 14:08:44)
If you're in the Chicago area…
http://www.yellowpages.com/addison-il/m … -462327448
Careless: (2011-10-18 16:42:31)
dave at http://shaftmasters.com/ gave me an excellent deal on my current aluminum driveshaft, and i must say it's one of the nicest ones I've seen. it's also filled with special NVH foam and it has standard 1350 or 1310 u-joints (can't remember), that can be replaced easily for like 20 bucks IF they ever fail. Total weight was like 12lbs or something… or even less. I can't remember, but it is a very nice piece.
sbs z31: (2011-10-18 17:43:29)
Adam, I spent like 300bux on mine and it is a brand new one piece.
DMANN: (2011-10-18 20:43:04)
Awesome service…
Butter: (2011-10-18 20:57:53)
Where the F are these completed swaps?!!!
DeleriousZ: (2011-10-18 21:38:35)
Remember what forum you're on lol.
RedDemon: (2011-10-18 22:53:17)
Hey now, it's quite a labour intensive project and it would take a few weekends working at it 3-4 hours here and there to finish, especially if you're in school…
DudeZX: (2011-10-18 23:12:30)
I just like to hoard rare/expensive parts, and tell everyone that I have them.
But really
Not expecting to get started on mine until mid-winter. My pops is already getting fussy about my garage-hogging. I figure it should only take a couple of weekends, waiting on the driveshaft to be made in-between the two. But chances are, I'll drag it out for a month.
OK85ZX: (2011-10-20 07:06:17)
Mine is in the token z31 parts pile awaiting graduation [archived image: smile.png]
Rambo69: (2011-12-29 04:45:18)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
s14 parts car aquired.... too bad I don't have a kit.....
anyone want to make some money???
DudeZX: (2011-12-29 05:01:13)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I need to go ahead and just get this done. I had my car aligned recently and didn't know whether to laugh or cry at the specs…
ShamWow: (2012-01-11 04:45:08)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
… Extra kits are available. Price is $230 shipped in the usa. I have 4 or 5 left..
Rambo69: (2012-01-11 16:01:59)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
^^ PM'd
cesar: (2012-01-12 05:28:05)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Nice to see someone else going this route in the NW. I will be around your area alot in the summer Rambo69 I might just have to stop by and check out your Z. :-) . Oh and the kit is great and makes things very simple for the subframe install.
boosty: (2012-01-19 06:38:44)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
pm´d you
hopefully shipping to Germany is possible,…
badboyz31: (2012-01-22 14:59:20)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
ok I don't know if this was answered yet, but what are you guys doing for rear swaybars?
shromy: (2012-01-22 16:14:43)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
?? S13 sway, I had a whiteline.
badboyz31: (2012-01-22 19:14:12)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
[quote]shromy wrote:
ok I don't know if this was answered yet, but what are you guys doing for rear swaybars?
?? S13 sway, I had a whiteline.
well I was not sure if they even had them or not or what, cause on mine I don't even see a spot where they would mount!
Careless: (2012-01-22 19:14:57)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
[quote]badboyz31 wrote: [quote=shromy]
ok I don't know if this was answered yet, but what are you guys doing for rear swaybars?
?? S13 sway, I had a whiteline.
well I was not sure if they even had them or not or what, cause on mine I don't even see a spot where they would mount!
they are mounted to the subframe. my s14 subframe has the sway bar still on it- im sure.
shromy: (2012-01-23 02:17:40)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I will see if I can get you pics since I still have a subframe laying in the driveway.
ShamWow: (2012-01-23 03:03:14)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=S13+sway+bar+options
[archived image: Whiteline-Rear-sway-bar-S13.JPG]
Spooledup300z: (2012-02-13 22:09:52)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Hey Mike, I Pmed you, I am interested in this kit, with the stance S13 bushing, and rear links.
I just want to say thanks for stepping it up big time for the Z31 community, we need more adventurist people willing to hang it out and do something out of the box. Between this rear conversion kit, and stance coilovers we are F$cking set.
ShamWow: (2012-02-13 22:38:07)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Currently sold out, due to a shortage of the "studs"
If I machine more studs I can get another couple kits together.
Switchback Motions: (2012-02-13 22:49:39)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I'm also in for a kit when they're ready Mike. No major hurry, just want to make sure I have a kit for when the time comes. Such a great setup you came up with. Top 5 favorite Zs of all time!! Keep up the good work!
Spooledup300z: (2012-02-13 23:10:57)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Well dude, if you could make some studs(fingers crossed) soon, consider a kit already sold
Ill try to keep an eye on this thread for updates
Greasedmonkey: (2012-02-14 05:44:37)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
ah crap, I thought you had more kits…I PM'd you too. Now Im sad. I wanted one. If you get the studs made let me know please.
Pauls: (2012-02-21 12:32:25)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
have seen two examples of s14 rear subframe upgrades, however suspension is so long that the rear towers needed height extensions, making this a big complex upgrade.
As such should I be going S13 subframe instead?
Arms and other bits for adjusting width, toe etc?
How much of the standard s13 rear suspension can I use?
Looking at getting this underway very soon along with rb26 update.
Thanks guys.
OK85ZX: (2012-02-21 13:53:37)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Check the sticky on the subject
BSRJIRONMAN: (2012-02-21 16:53:05)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Subframe isn't the issue here, it's the struts (coilovers). You do not have to modify your rear upper mounts as long as you use s13 coilovers, or z31 coilovers (available from Stance).
Pauls: (2012-02-22 02:20:20)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
cool, was concerned as read somewhere (have been doing a lot of searching) that the longer struts allowed for better ride and travel, as opposed to bottoming out and harsher ride through reduced suspension travel.
A guy in Adelaide Australia did the mod along with extended rear towers, which from what I could see was a copy of what another dude in America did.
This got me thinking what are the true negatives of not extending?
I am quite hands on but am finding understanding this challenging :-(.
Any links would be appreciated as am set on getting this underway in the next few weeks.
Thanks guys.
BSRJIRONMAN: (2012-02-22 17:16:16)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I would doubt that bottoming out the coils would be an issue. As long as you don't preload the springs and reduce the travel with your adjustments. The amount of travel that's actually experienced is only a fraction of what's available, especially given the higher spring/damping rates. Talk to Butter regarding this modification, he used s14 coilovers.
Butter's build thread ------> viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9132
DMANN: (2012-02-23 21:17:02)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Yeah don't worry about the rear uppers unless you go with the Z32 alum. knuckles. S13 works fine.
cjmayo: (2012-02-25 07:10:00)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I'm severely upset that Mike isn't making these kits right now, as I just picked up an S13 subframe for my Z [archived image: frown.png]
I'll keep checking back, and hopefully some kits will be made soon.
Careless: (2012-02-25 07:59:49)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
if you're that upset, you can make your own kit by using carriage bolts if you REALLY wanted to put it on your car. it wasn't a thought at first because the idea was that the milled studs were welded directly to the rear diff mount bar, but since they have to be lowered and shimmed up with metal… a longe carriage bolt that has both a proper shoulder to accomodate the bushing bore, and a square under-head hex that you could mill down to a similar shape as the MikeG studs could be welded and plate steel tied over it with some more welds. it would be similar. infact, you could get a carriage bolt that is long enough that you can have it sized down and re-threaded to fine-pitch if you REALLY wanted to have it done.
in total it would cost you less than what mike pays for in materials for the milled studs, but you'll be figuring it all out yourself. his kit is well worth the price, given the complete stock depletion- as you have already noted.
how bad do you want it?
Spooledup300z: (2012-02-25 18:10:27)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
[quote]Careless wrote:
I'm severely upset that Mike isn't making these kits right now, as I just picked up an S13 subframe for my Z [archived image: frown.png]
I'll keep checking back, and hopefully some kits will be made soon.
if you're that upset, you can make your own kit by using carriage bolts if you REALLY wanted to put it on your car. it wasn't a thought at first because the idea was that the milled studs were welded directly to the rear diff mount bar, but since they have to be lowered and shimmed up with metal… a longe carriage bolt that has both a proper shoulder to accomodate the bushing bore, and a square under-head hex that you could mill down to a similar shape as the MikeG studs could be welded and plate steel tied over it with some more welds. it would be similar. infact, you could get a carriage bolt that is long enough that you can have it sized down and re-threaded to fine-pitch if you REALLY wanted to have it done.
in total it would cost you less than what mike pays for in materials for the milled studs, but you'll be figuring it all out yourself. his kit is well worth the price, given the complete stock depletion- as you have already noted.
how bad do you want it?
Not sure if he wants to use a carriage bolt, typically they don't have a high rockwell rating, If he could find a rated carriage bolt now were talking.
I actually did this S13 subframe conversion on my 85T(that I junked), I used grade 8 long bolts(don't remember the size) and welded them to the rear subframe mount once everything was all plumbed up. Mike's kit make the whole job a lot simpler, plus there well put together and also, its great to support him.
adamvann3: (2012-02-25 20:01:48)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Toss up a thread in the WTB section. I am sure someone will sell you their kit.
Careless: (2012-02-25 22:06:23)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
The place I go to has large shoulder carriage bolts that are 12.9 black oxide / nitride bolts. The reason I mention carriage is because of the head style. it has a round bulb head that you can have milled down to be almost exactly like the studs made. But really it's the rest of the kit that has the thought put into it- and it's definitely worth buying for 300 if you can find it.
Time is money. Once all is said and done, you buy the bolts for 20 bucks a piece, go to have them milled/rethreaded if desired, and you're no more better off as far as spending goes.
BSRJIRONMAN: (2012-02-26 08:43:42)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
[quote]adamvann3 wrote:
I'm severely upset that Mike isn't making these kits right now, as I just picked up an S13 subframe for my Z [archived image: frown.png]
I'll keep checking back, and hopefully some kits will be made soon.
Toss up a thread in the WTB section. I am sure someone will sell you their kit.
That, or study those members' conversions that did not utilize the kit. If you understand the goals and methods that underly the conversion, you should be able to come up with something yourself. Of course, it will take longer. If you really want to get it done, you'll get it done.
badboyz31: (2012-02-26 09:00:00)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
to be honest the swap is pretty damn easy and straight forward, hardest part is getting stuff lined up, I was going to buy one of mike's kits for the prettiness factor but realized fuck it.................why?!?! because Daily Race Car! mine is pretty much the same as mike's though just without all the machined nice parts!
ShamWow: (2012-02-29 04:05:26)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Careless are you serious? :huh:
Do you even have your kit installed yet?
Did you even look at the kit? The studs dont have a "high rockwell rating". And you think you know what I paid for in materials?
Have you ever tried to machine a hardened steel bolt?
Why would you "mill" a stud? Perhaps you meant "turn"? like with a lathe? Have you machined anything ever?
Have you ever tried to weld a hardened steel bolt?
Perhaps you should consider spending a bit more time with your google search bar welder in the garage, actually installing the kit, rather than acting like your the expert on it.
Careless: (2012-02-29 04:21:23)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
the fuck is your problem?
by mill, i meant turn. yes.
have i tried welding a hardened steel bolt? yes. many times. without fail.
btw, who pissed in your lucky charms this morning?
was i the one that mentioned rockwell rating at all? no. I just mentioned the highest grade of bolt available from my supplier. there are other grades too… they're a Bolt store for a reason.
do you mind telling me what having the kit installed and having bolts modified to work with the rear subframe bushings has to do with one another?
if i didn't have your kit, that's exactly what i would be doing, and without fail.
thankyouverymuch. your kit isn't the only solution. it's just a very convenient one.
here we have some guy who's "really upset" that you're not producing this kit right now, and I'm the one you single out. nice to see you have your head in the right place.
btw, you quoted me on a price for just the studs, remember? I have a pretty good idea of what you'd like to make on them. so to answer your question: no, i don't know what your material cost was- but I have a pretty good baseline to go from- considering you wanted to sell crank spacers for 50 bucks. ninja plz.
[archived image: smile.png]
DeleriousZ: (2012-02-29 04:57:50)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
ahhh mike, the inner engineer comes out lol.
stufferton: (2012-02-29 06:29:03)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Welding 4140 and mild steel have nearly identical puddle formations. Funny story where I work about that. The guy that had my job before me, cut plugs out of the wrong material (used 4140 instead of 1018 roundbar) and then welded them into place. The machinists kept braking bits trying to hone out the plugged holes.
So long as you don't heat up the 4140 before turning them, you can have studs made out of that if you so desired, then just heat treat them and boom your golden. Fortunately for me we have a legit blacksmith setup at my work.
^ Prolly the route I will go for studs.
Butter: (2012-02-29 14:04:40)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I used a piece of allthread from down the street at the hardware store. Welded a piece of pipe I found over it as a spacer. Next, I jammed it in there, welded it, and enjoyed driving my car.
Key points:
-Can find anywhere
-Cheap
-Won't break
-I want to drive my car instead of
-Heavier duty stuff is not required. Nissan doesn't even use it.
Meanwhile, at Chunginzhou....
[archived image: WeldersIndR_650x475.jpg]
Not concerned with Rockwell ratings. Getting things done. Taking America by storm.
DMANN: (2012-02-29 21:04:22)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Yup, used a piece of hardened steel, and cut the threads into it, was it easy hell no. Did it work hell ya!
ShamWow: (2012-02-29 22:06:47)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Of course there are other options. Point is that all the ones you mentioned are tarded, and that half your posts on this forum are worthless shit based on no real world experience.
If a guy wants to install the subframe, perhaps he should start by looking into methods used by those that have actually done it already.
Please do not weld a piece of hardened steel to anything subjected to loading unless you plan to temper post weld (which will warp the bar stud assembly). Ask me how i know…im not just a z31 google hero.
There are 40 of these on the market and as far as i can tell only 3 have been installed. Either buy someones off of their dusty shelf, or follow the route of one of the people who installed without the kit.
badboyz31: (2012-03-01 04:08:11)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
out of those 40 people a few have them installed and the rest of us that have them installed which is like 10 of us all together just fabbed our own shit!
bleakdragonmage: (2012-03-01 04:51:35)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Or bought it from someone else that fabbed it… Yes, I am including you in that lol :nanan?re
Careless: (2012-03-01 05:28:13)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
So they're tarded because they worked for two members on hybridZ with s30's and a member on this forum here (DMANN) which i've met, and he explained to me how he did it? And didn't Butter just say he did pretty much the same thing? Oh, and Spooledup300z.
You like to spout off sayin' I have no real world experience, meanwhile you just pretty much called oh… 5… 6 people stupid for doing what I've explained that I would do if I didn't have your fancy kit. Interesting. I guess those people, as well as myself for thinking it's a suitable idea, must be real tarded.
LEARN TO READ: I did not say "use a hardened bolt", I replied to Spooledup300z in regards to his statement that carriage bolts are not rated. Carriage bolts are a "style" of bolt with a rounded head. They are available in unrated, all the way up to 12.9- which I know to be available. I'm really sorry you're having trouble understanding. It doesn't take a google search wizard to figure out what I said and what I didn't say.
figures. you seem to have something against me, so I don't expect any less.
badboyz31: (2012-03-01 06:13:38)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
[quote]bleakdragonmage wrote:
out of those 40 people a few have them installed and the rest of us that have them installed which is like 10 of us all together just fabbed our own shit!
Or bought it from someone else that fabbed it… Yes, I am including you in that lol :nanan?re
Well sir lol, only thing I did not have to do was the front mounts, all of the back stuff like the plate and studs and stuff I had to do myself along with the notching of the frame too. [archived image: tongue.png]
z31det: (2012-03-01 12:33:29)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
This ^^......Everyone seems to be making this conversion allot more complicated than it actually is.
Oh and I'm not sure if it was mentioned before, but another alternative is to cut the factory studs, with they're backing plates, out of an old z31 (or any other Nissan) parts car [archived image: smile.png]
Butter: (2012-03-01 14:51:10)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
…as if that is what you would select. I don't care if this is what you meant or not, this is what it looks like. Then it starts off a discussion about stuff that can cause a newb to start shitting his pants about Rockwell ratings in his swap.
You have this "gift" where you can make cooking a Hot Pocket seem like you need a certain wavelength microwave and involve brown mustard. Not just this thread, but a lot of threads.
Careless: (2012-03-01 16:05:59)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
For a bunch of elite engineers you guys claim to be, I question how you guys passed your classes without being able to read what's right infront of you. Do you guys have books in your schools? Especially since I never once mentioned 12.9 to be a measure Rockwell ratings… because… It's not. It's a bolt class specification. Not a Rockwell hardness rating.
you guys have a gift of being able to produce cool parts, and push them out to z31 people as if it's the most amazingly engineered thing, and then spit on people who have alternative ideas that would work just fine- even if it's something you did yourself without failure.
I'd compare that to cooking a hot pocket in a microwave, and then eating the microwave because it smells like pizza.
you can keep trying to make it seem like i need to have actually done this swap to know that this idea would work (like it even makes s a difference) when you guys have done similar things yourselves. please, be my guest. continue to talk amongst yourselves as to how much of a bench racer I am. But just keep in mind i've worked on cars that are NOT my own which see a lot of abuse.
Looks like we have 2 groups on z31p. those who like seeing you guys target my posts, and those who think you guys are a bag of bleedy dicks for doing just that.
Spooledup300z: (2012-03-01 16:22:49)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Wow this whole thing has spun out of control, I am the one that mentioned a Rockwell rating, would scare a newb silly. If your going to weld a bolt in place to hold the subframe and take the alot of a abuse you would want some type of rated fastener. As I mentioned before, yes I proformed this swap way before mikes kit was available. Mikes kit makes this whole swap alot simpler, and also it helps him out.
Now as for all the Ethugging, it's not worth it fellas
Careless you can do you swap anyway you want, because it's you that will be driving the car, I am not saying your wrong for using carriage bolts dude, do it how ever you want, as long as it works for you
Carless: as butter said, this swap is alot easier than you think, once you do it, you'll see
ShamWow: lighten up a little dude, regardless of what you know and how skilled you are, slamming people is for the birds and some will judge you for that. Your a knowledgeable person that has done alot more to your car than 90% of the people here
Careless: (2012-03-01 16:54:26)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
please show me where I said this swap was hard, Spooledup? I don't consider this swap hard at all. It just costs a lot more money in parts than people think it does- which is the only reason I haven't put my subframe in.
I was merely giving options for those that don't have access to weld-in studs, and mr.cleaning cloth decided to blow it out of proportion. Some people pay more attention to detail (turning/milling to get it to look nicer and fit 10000%). As I said, I would use bolts if I didn't have the kit already.
just as a recap.
- studs not available.
- options provided to replace studs.
- options provided to make studs almost identical in shape to mike's studs, with MANY grades of bolt available
- options to mimic previously available studs deemed as over-engineering
so does that mean the original studs are over-engineered to begin with? that sure is what it sounds like now that I think about it. maybe instead of turning the studs like a pro- the kit should have came with simple bolts. then they wouldn't have been 250 bucks. you know, since making studs is overcomplicated and all.
- fleur
Spooledup300z: (2012-03-01 18:34:38)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
You never said "it was hard" I should of said its not as hard as people may think.
Let it go careless, no need to keep with back and forth stuff up
Careless: (2012-03-01 18:47:51)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
hmmmm… nah.
the more people claim that I said things which I didn't the more I'll say to illustrate that it's not the case.
- -)
nothing personal towards you.
ShamWow: (2012-03-01 21:39:24)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Yes, making your own stud is an option. Fucking go for it. I wouldn't use a hardened fastener.
Is that what you were trying to say? Otherwise I am not following.
You guys want my pricing sheet? I paid $8 for the studs. Yes I couldve bought a bolt and turned it down. Dang if I had done that I could've shaved…(calculating)…$4 off the price of the kit.
On a completely unrelated and personal note, Careless, show me a 12.9 bolt thats not hardened. Of course I know what the rating is.
Careless: (2012-03-02 02:57:55)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
one more time, for the reading impaired:
rated vs. not rated. i know a nitrided bolt is hardened. it's a heat treating process.
hint: I had my crank nitrided. I'm aware of what the process involves.
are we all clear now?
slingo: (2012-03-02 20:16:35)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
+1 for a kit… have an s14 subframe lined up :x
Switchback Motions: (2012-03-02 21:04:00)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Thanks for comming out. Who knows if/when these will be made again.
I'm sure there would be a long list. But in the meantime its DIY… or possibly the for sale/ WTB adds.
Careless: (2012-03-02 21:08:36)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
well if that's the case, my kit is available for 400 dollars.
Switchback Motions: (2012-03-03 04:13:23)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Bastard
ShamWow: (2012-03-03 16:55:52)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I will probably produce more this summer.
Butter: (2012-03-03 17:02:55)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Sell them for $100 and flood the market, so the hoarders lose out on their investment.
Switchback Motions: (2012-03-03 19:06:41)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I will probably give you money this summer… maybe a reach around of you're nice about it.
bleakdragonmage: (2012-03-03 19:34:47)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
This!!!!!
Careless: (2012-03-03 19:48:03)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
hey if the demand is there and it's so uncomplicated to make it work without the kit, I'll trace/draw what I need to and reap the rewards of people who would like to have the kit now :-)
I could put that money towards the adjustable links and the driveshaft/diff that are required to make this work better than just stock S-chassis parts, since I don't have those parts yet.
Windzer: (2012-03-06 16:58:41)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I will most likely be in as well.
Javier: (2012-03-06 23:03:07)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I'm in , just pm when they are ready!
Spooledup300z: (2012-03-17 15:47:38)
Issue I've run into while using the Z32 rear uprights/knuckl
Well I began my s13 rear subframe swap on the z31, I have a set of the stance coilovers, as I was doing the swap, I noticed that the z32 alum uprights use a "fork type" mounting for the coilovers vs the "stud type".
[attachment=0:26l1gbq7]z32 rear knuckle vs stance z31 coilovers.JPG[/attachment:26l1gbq7]
I just left a message for dave, wondering if stance makes a set of z32 rear coil mounting bottoms.
Did a little research and noticed that megan racing does make a set, http://www.phase2motortrend.com/meras13recom.html. Just not sure if they fit the stance coilovers.
So Just a heads up to anyone using the z32 rear uprights, btw what rear knuckles are you guys using? s13 are 4 lugs, s14 se's are 5 lug........
- Found the solution, use S13 knuckles with Z32 hubs/bearings or use z32 bottoms of some type and modify upper shock mount. This thread helped with the solution viewtopic.php?f=2&t=31686&p=365796 **
Spooledup300z: (2012-03-25 13:08:45)
s13 rear subframe done
Finally done with my install of the rear subframe, just have to finish boxing in the right side frame, so including myself that's about 11 or so know people who have done the conversion, with or without the kit. As I stated in this thread before, I did this conversion on my old Z(that I got rid of). This time I managed to get one of Mike's kit for the conversion.
When boxing in the rear notches that you cut out for clearance, I used "automotive seam sealer" to seal up the welds, to help make sure they are sealed and to keep water out of the car.
[attachment=2:ah412nsy]s13 rear subframe complete 3.JPG[/attachment:ah412nsy]
[attachment=1:ah412nsy]s13 rear subframe prep to paint.JPG[/attachment:ah412nsy]
[attachment=0:ah412nsy]s13 rear subframe complete 2.JPG[/attachment:ah412nsy]
Pauls: (2012-03-26 02:35:04)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I am dying for one of these kits as will make the conversion much easier for me to handle.
ShamWow if your around you have PMs form me..
[quote]Javier wrote:
I will probably produce more this summer.
I'm in , just pm when they are ready!
Spooledup300z: (2012-03-26 10:45:07)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Throw up an ad in the wtb section, roughly 30+ kits out there
TearingRaven: (2012-03-29 05:21:40)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Did anyone find that when bolting in the base bar to the diff mount that the bar was crooked? Mine is several mm's off.
BSRJIRONMAN: (2012-03-29 06:13:59)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
If I'm understanding you correctly, I experienced the same issue, though it was only 3-4mm. I simply grabbed the stud, pulled the bar flush, and tack welded it to the frame. There was enough play for it to line up.
Spooledup300z: (2012-03-29 10:45:09)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Mines was off a little also, I just widen the holes in the bar plate
Butter: (2012-03-29 12:55:12)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
This crookedness was cleverly engineered by Mike to determine who was actually installing his kits. :wink:
Spooledup300z: (2012-03-29 16:01:52)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Butter you should be happy, seems like more people are actually installing the kits [archived image: smile.png] Rather than let them sit on the shelf, your dream of multilink z31's may come true [archived image: smile.png]
KansaiDrifter: (2012-03-31 21:03:31)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I'm mid-install right now, the center bolt holes are off, they seem to be straight, but they are too narrow, I just used a pyramid step drill bit to enlarge the holes just enough to still maintain the positioning but fit.
One thing I'm wondering is if other people are dropping the gas tank out? I'm probably going to drop it out so I can fully weld up the "u" brackets around the studs.
Oh also, it seems as though fully tightening the center alignment studs will bow the alignment bar and cause the studs to point towards the inside, anyone have any issues with that?
Careless: (2012-03-31 21:07:25)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
all the pics of people installing the bar show it laying on the bolts, not fully tightened. you have to shim up the ends and cut the center of the bar anyways.
DMANN: (2012-04-01 13:40:00)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I see all this stuff of people writing about this kit.
What has made the kit easier to do the swap than just swapping the subframe in with out the kit?
Careless: (2012-04-01 16:14:11)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
mainly alignment for the rear studs and the front bushing tubes- i guess?
Butter: (2012-04-01 20:31:24)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
When I did mine without the kit, it took me a full weekend, starting at 9am and working till 2am.
I think with this kit, it would take me about 5 hours to get the sub installed in the car, and a weekend to get it able to drive.
Most of this work is positioning. The asymmetrical nature of the chassis and parts of the subframe don't make this easy at all. When I built the front extensions, it took 5 tries to get it right, cutting and re-welding. The whole time, I had the subframe with arms balancing on a jack, while I worked on my back. It's like doing a custom engine swap and building the necessary mounts, except you are upside down, and there is less room for error.
badboyz31: (2012-04-01 21:33:21)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
this, I did not have to do the welding and such extending the front mounts, but the rest of the swap is deff a bitch when working on your back the whole time with a pesky jack!
Spooledup300z: (2012-04-01 22:33:28)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
exactly what butter said
BSRJIRONMAN: (2012-04-02 16:47:13)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Cuts down install time. If I had to take all the measurements to locate the rear studs, I wouldn't have anything welded yet. Takes a lot of the thinking out of it. I would actually be done by now, if I didn't ENJOY "space-shuttling".
[archived image: E9EFDC5B.jpg]
Spooledup300z: (2012-04-02 17:12:02)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
BSRJ: Wow, that's pretty impressive how you stepped up the stud mounts like that. I just cut about 3 pieces of 1/8th steel stacked them in there and welded it all up
BSRJIRONMAN: (2012-04-02 20:09:36)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Yeah, that's the way I've seen it done in other threads. But that's quick, and easy. Pff! :lol:
Spooledup300z: (2012-04-06 13:00:56)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Thanks to the hoarders of rare expensive parts, stance ruca's and tractions bars are on back order until mid may. So I had to source a ruca that would clear the coilover, until my stance parts come in, what I found was the J30's ruca clears with no problem.
[attachment=0:2kvowbaj]j30 ruca vs s13 ruca.JPG[/attachment:2kvowbaj]
DMANN: (2012-04-06 13:13:59)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
The S13, Z32, and S14,15 all work.
The J30's look the same as the S14.
I would suggest the J30's and S14's because of the single bar easier to get to the coilover and adjust/remove if needed.
Spooledup300z: (2012-04-06 13:17:37)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
much better break down on info than my above post, thanx Dmann.
btw, for the people that are doing this conversion, If you choose to use the ebay S subframe rear links, please do your research.
Careless: (2012-04-06 14:15:55)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
essplain? what did you come across?
i was honestly looking at the cheapo isis kit if i intend to install this thing over the winter. or bings… not sure yet.
DMANN: (2012-04-06 20:51:59)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
If you get the ebay ones make sure that you OIL ALL JOINTS as much as you can, and often as you can!
Butter: (2012-04-07 17:54:17)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
It doesn't even matter how much you oil them, they are soo scary. I've seen the joints fail after 1 dday.
The ebay ones on my car, I replaced with Aurora rod ends. Ended up paying more in total than a quality set. And there is still some nervous-ness with thin, rusty wall tubing and possible poor welding.
Careless: (2012-04-07 19:20:13)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
hmmm. noted.
anyone with experience on bings products? I know some people who say they used to be good… back when he started out and didn't send absolutely everything overseas.
but apparently they can be had for a good price and they're still relatively good?
maybe i'll just go PBM.
skeeter: (2012-04-08 00:58:51)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
This. Or go with SPL or Stance. All three of these brands are great quality and you wont have any regrets.
MADMIKE: (2012-04-08 01:16:24)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
anyone running a q45 diff yet?
badboyz31: (2012-04-08 03:16:46)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I am and DMANN is also, but I'm not sure if he has driven on his yet, I'm waiting on my driveshaft from the shop, which should be a few days away and then i can go and drive the shit out of my car!
Careless: (2012-04-08 04:37:33)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
[quote]badboyz31 wrote:
anyone running a q45 diff yet?
I am and DMANN is also, but I'm not sure if he has driven on his yet, I'm waiting on my driveshaft from the shop, which should be a few days away and then i can go and drive the shit out of my car!
no, he hasn't driven on his yet.
he made 12 second passes on his.
- lol:
Careless: (2012-04-08 04:38:04)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
[quote]skeeter wrote:
maybe i'll just go PBM
.
This. Or go with SPL or Stance. All three of these brands are great quality and you wont have any regrets.
i keep forgetting about stance and it's in the thread title. lol good call.
G-E: (2012-04-08 05:11:05)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Bing used to use QA1 parts for the eyeballs, I don't know if he changed, they have a wide variety of versions if you look on their site
badboyz31: (2012-04-08 05:12:17)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
[quote]Careless wrote: [quote=badboyz31]
anyone running a q45 diff yet?
I am and DMANN is also, but I'm not sure if he has driven on his yet, I'm waiting on my driveshaft from the shop, which should be a few days away and then i can go and drive the shit out of my car!
no, he hasn't driven on his yet.
he made 12 second passes on his.
- lol:
shows how much I pay attention! lol
K_Scheeringa: (2012-04-08 13:01:08)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I'm collecting the parts to do this exact swap.
But i'm having issues finding a TT Z32 axle (half) shaft.
[quote]Careless wrote: [quote=badboyz31]
anyone running a q45 diff yet?
I am and DMANN is also, but I'm not sure if he has driven on his yet, I'm waiting on my driveshaft from the shop, which should be a few days away and then i can go and drive the shit out of my car!
no, he hasn't driven on his yet.
he made 12 second passes on his.
- lol:
Spooledup300z: (2012-04-08 13:19:09)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
K_Scheeringa:
J30's will work just fine for you.
K_Scheeringa: (2012-04-08 13:24:26)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
To confirm.. The J30 wheel side splines are 33mm??
I'm planning on using the knuckles off the Q45 and they need the 33mm dia wheel side spline.
The NA Z32 uses 30mm and is calling out the same joint type as the J30's.. the TT Z32 uses 33mm dia..
Spooledup300z: (2012-04-08 13:37:00)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
[quote]K_Scheeringa wrote: So to confirm, i can use a J30 drivers side halfshaft in stead of the tt Z32 shaft..
I have the complete Q45 rear sub assembly so i have any parts i need off of that.. It's just way too wide.. lol
K_Scheeringa:
J30's will work just fine for you.
Yep, as long as there the "5 star" bolt pattern. You could use the J30, Z32 NA, or Z32 TT diff also, they all use that 5 star bolt pattern. I use the Z32 NA because of the 4.09 ratio, Z32 TT is like 3.70, and J30 is 3.87 or something like that.
Z32 NA and J30 stuff is much easier to find and will hold up very well, there also all VLSD
[attachment=0:3zbqq76n]5 star bolt pattern.JPG[/attachment:3zbqq76n]
K_Scheeringa: (2012-04-08 13:40:23)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Sorry, check above.. i was editing while you replied.. lol
It's not the 5 bolt diff end thats my issue, it's the splined wheel side..
[quote]Spooledup300z wrote: [quote=K_Scheeringa]So to confirm, i can use a J30 drivers side halfshaft in stead of the tt Z32 shaft..
I have the complete Q45 rear sub assembly so i have any parts i need off of that.. It's just way too wide.. lol
K_Scheeringa:
J30's will work just fine for you.
Yep, as long as there the "5 star" bolt pattern
Spooledup300z: (2012-04-08 14:00:01)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
use Z32 NA stuff, knuckle's, diff, etc to simplify your swap
K_Scheeringa: (2012-04-08 14:05:11)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Not going to happen, i have the whole rear section out of the Q45, so why go out and buy more parts.. lol..
Apparently Dmann did the same as i'm doing and has a source for the axles, i'm just waiting to hear back from him.
DMANN: (2012-04-08 18:38:08)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I have both the 6 bolt Q45 and the 5 bolt Q45-97 and up.
Using the 6-bolt, for wheel bearings I got a good deal on the ones from a R32 skyline(same as the Z32tt)
Kevin being T.O. you might have a better chance of finding a half shaft from a Skyline rather than a Z32tt same size again.
Spooledup300z: (2012-04-08 20:19:09)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
So you use a Q45 rear subframe? I thought z32/Q45 was to wide for the Z31.
badboyz31: (2012-04-08 20:23:54)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
this is his setup, just like mine and a few others
s13 subframe
q45 diff
1 q45 axle
1 z32tt axle or skyline axle
s13 diff cover
j30 half moon rucas
z32 or q45 uprights
and a few other tad bits here and there
Spooledup300z: (2012-04-08 20:32:49)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Ok, confused me a little bit about the subframe. you guys are'nt binding the rear coilover/lower bushing using the Z32 or Q45 uprights? I had this issue on my old Z while using the Z32 rear uprights. Damn near ripped the bushing right out of the knuckle
badboyz31: (2012-04-08 21:34:01)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
the other guys made some sort of doohicky that fixes the problem, me I just left it the way it is, and if it binds it binds. I will probably find a spare set of uprights and cut the mount off and re-weld them later!
K_Scheeringa: (2012-04-09 01:38:26)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
The Q45 rear subframe is too wide, it's actually wider then a tt Z32 subframe.
badboyz31: (2012-04-09 01:59:54)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
[quote]K_Scheeringa wrote: The Q45 rear subframe is too wide, it's actually wider then a tt Z32 subframe.
So you use a Q45 rear subframe? I thought z32/Q45 was to wide for the Z31.
This is basically what Iâm looking to do..
Was going to use the Q45 knuckles, Z32 struts, and see if the Q45 rucas are usable as they are half moon.
actually to be honest I think my rucas are from the q45 and not the j30!
K_Scheeringa: (2012-04-09 03:05:35)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
[quote]badboyz31 wrote: [quote=K_Scheeringa]This is basically what Iâm looking to do..
Was going to use the Q45 knuckles, Z32 struts, and see if the Q45 rucas are usable as they are half moon.
this is his setup, just like mine and a few others
s13 subframe
q45 diff
1 q45 axle
1 z32tt axle or skyline axle
s13 diff cover
j30 half moon rucas
z32 or q45 uprights
and a few other tad bits here and there
actually to be honest I think my rucas are from the q45 and not the j30!
Thats good to hear.. I'm hoping to use most of the arms from the Q45 as the S13 sub frame i got as seen better days, but once i get into it I'll compare measurements between parts.. Now all i have to do is find that dam drivers side axle..
Spooledup300z: (2012-04-09 15:45:57)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
[quote=badboyz31]the other guys made some sort of doohicky that fixes the problem, me I just left it the way it is, and if it binds it binds. I will probably find a spare set of uprights and cut the mount off and re-weld them later![/quote
Check Zilva when you choose to weld it, takes a serious Tig machine over 250 amps to weld that thick aluminum. You may be better off modding the shock tower
badboyz31: (2012-04-10 00:40:27)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
[quote]Spooledup300z wrote:
the other guys made some sort of doohicky that fixes the problem, me I just left it the way it is, and if it binds it binds. I will probably find a spare set of uprights and cut the mount off and re-weld them later![/quote
Check Zilva when you choose to weld it, takes a serious Tig machine over 250 amps to weld that thick aluminum. You may be better off modding the shock tower
oh i would not be welding it, I would take it somewhere and have them weld it!
stufferton: (2012-04-14 13:13:38)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
You could weld it with a hobbyist machine, like a Miller 165/185. Or the Lincoln that Satan uses, it just means more, smaller passes instead of one large pass. Personally I feel more comfortable with bulding up multiple passes than one big hot pass…you want your weld to penetrate both work pcs evenly. If you were to cut your weld in half the penetration area should look like a circle for T joints, more spade like for butt joints.
Richard_85ZXT: (2012-04-16 07:57:52)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
didn't want to go through 24 pages right now but since this is done and I missed it any change there would be another group buy for this again?
badboyz31: (2012-04-24 04:19:19)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I actually think I found something the would really help with the angel of the mount as they replace the bushing with spherical ball joints! I'm gonna give them a try and see if they would help angle them better!
http://www.importpartspro.com/splrsbz32.html
Spooledup300z: (2012-04-24 10:04:31)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
It wouldn't help you, 240 guys have a tried that route, only way to solve this issue as I stated before. Is to either modify the upper shock mount, or cut and re-weld the rear lower mount. The advantage of running the z32 rear knuckle is weight saving of like 5lbs.
It's so much easier to just swap the bearing/hub, rear E-brake assembly into the rear 240 steel knuckle. Also is you ever choose to use the stance coil over kit for the z31 it uses the S Rear subframe lower mounting.
badboyz31: (2012-04-24 10:15:29)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
[quote]Spooledup300z wrote:
I actually think I found something the would really help with the angel of the mount as they replace the bushing with spherical ball joints! I'm gonna give them a try and see if they would help angle them better!
http://www.importpartspro.com/splrsbz32.html
It wouldn't help you, 240 guys have a tried that route, only way to solve this issue as I stated before. Is to either modify the upper shock mount, or cut and re-weld the rear lower mount. The advantage of running the z32 rear knuckle is weight saving of like 5lbs.
It's so much easier to just swap the bearing/hub, rear E-brake assembly into the rear 240 steel knuckle. Also is you ever choose to use the stance coil over kit for the z31 it uses the S Rear subframe lower mounting.
oh ok, but as for the stance coils for the z31 you can still use them with the z32 uprights you just have to state that you want z32 lower mounts for the rear instead, I know this because 1sickZ used the stances with the z32 uprights on his z and never really ran into any problems! and I have the exact rearend from his car in my car, but I still will most likely pick up a spare set of z32 uprights and have the mounts rewelded, it would actually be cheaper for me that way cause I know people!
Spooledup300z: (2012-04-24 15:37:38)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I tried to contact stance about the uprights and never heard back from them, so maybe they do sale them. Make sure whoever you know, is a good aluminum welder, this will require preheating and some deep root welds IMO. It has to take alot of abuse
badboyz31: (2012-04-24 19:50:57)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
yea i know a few guys who have been welding for 20+ years and are excellent aluminum welders, as for the the z32 uprights you can buy them from tougefactory just contact them and you can also buy the from frsport.com!
DMANN: (2012-04-25 21:06:08)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Not really all that hard to make the z32 uprights to work, and yes…1sickz did have a issue with the bushings starting to tear on him…
Hammer shock tower, cut angle mounts and mount shocks done.
badboyz31: (2012-04-25 21:15:17)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
from what I can tell the mounts are not torn at all, and this is the exact rear from his car, also I get the hammer shock tower part, but I'm just not getting the angle mounts!
DMANN: (2012-04-25 21:54:54)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
like this… I believe he replaced his with new bushings, but in his post or the multi link swap post he did address this issue. Also in the first page of the multi link swap KenAZ also addressed the same issue and he used the Z32 subframe.
Yes that is 1" thick piece of alum, cut on a slight angle. And the car sits level at stock height.
Careless: (2012-04-25 22:38:26)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
he made a wedge spacer to reposition the coil-over to reduce the bind?
that's a pretty slick solution.
does the coilover bolt into the spacer and then the spacer onto the strut tower? or are there some long ass bolts pressed into the coil-over top mount?
badboyz31: (2012-04-25 23:45:00)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
shit it would probably just be easier for me to buy a extra set of uprights and just have the mounts cut and rewelded, no way do I have the ability to cut a spacer like that!
Butter: (2012-04-26 03:08:55)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Why don't you guys just modify the stance lower fork thing into the position the upright seems to wish it to be? Like bend one side, and cutoff/extend/bend/reweld the other?
badboyz31: (2012-04-26 03:46:52)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I was thinking this exact thing a few days back and I might give that a try only thing is the z32 stance upright tubes are $153 for the set so I don't want to fuck them up! But I'm deff considering this method also!
Or possibly even take to pieces of steel flat stock and bend them to the angle and have the bottom bolt to the z31 stock mount and the top bolt to the s13 lower mount ton the bottom of the coil sort of like a solid H bracket!
Rambo69: (2012-05-20 12:16:38)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I finally have some updates and have pics to boot!
[archived image: th_a9306130.jpg]
[archived image: th_2644a781.jpg]
[archived image: th_11b73200.jpg]
[archived image: th_560ca2a1.jpg]
[archived image: th_a448569d.jpg]
ShamWow: (2012-05-20 20:24:06)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Your offset bushing appears to be installed upside down.
At this point the only this holding the front mount of the subframe up is the bushings press fit.
You must correct this.
Careless: (2012-05-20 21:12:06)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
does that mean the geometry of the subframe now that it has been welded must also be changed significantly?
sheeeeeeeyut.
he could just put a wide washer/plate like the one that comes stock on the Z31 above the bushing to act as a large washer to hold it all up? not sure how safe you guys think that is. but if it needs to come apart again- i'd try that first.
Spooledup300z: (2012-05-20 22:04:11)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
[attachment=1:m39y5m69]s13 subframe frt bushing 1.JPG[/attachment:m39y5m69]
[attachment=0:m39y5m69]s13 rear subframe complete 3.JPG[/attachment:m39y5m69]
Looking at pic #3, how would you install the bushing the other way? it seems like it would hit the arch on the subframe
Damn… I guess I installed mine wrong also, everything seems fine though.
Butter: (2012-05-20 23:23:46)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Should have the same alignment, or at least, close enough. Just flip it.
How does it drive? :super
Spooledup300z: (2012-05-20 23:51:07)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I havnt driven it yet, everything seems fine, it's all welded in, the subframe swap is done. I guess I will just have to live with it
OK85ZX: (2012-05-21 02:20:12)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
You really shouldn't drive it like that. If you have somehow installed it so that you absolutely can't flip it, then you should find some sort of large washer or something to put on the bottom.
ShamWow: (2012-05-21 02:47:15)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Z31P doesn't understand subframe riser type bushing.
That type of bushing raises the subframe closer to the body. This gives some correction to suspension geometry for low cars.
BSRJIRONMAN: (2012-05-21 05:27:21)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
As others have stated, this single peice bushing design should only be installed one way. The lip on the one end is critical for support of the subframe.
Here are some pictures of my install… 8)
[archived image: 3.jpg]
[archived image: 1.jpg]
[archived image: 2-1.jpg]
Careless: (2012-05-21 06:56:42)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
you at least need to support the mounts from underneath. the bolts are supposed to hold the weight of the subframe up to the car, not the weight of the bushings only.
also, if they hit the arch, why wouldn't you just grind the arch?
all those welds look nice. :-( hope you don't have to hack it to shit to get it to work again.
BSRJIRONMAN, work is lookin noiiice.
wondering about this pic though:
[archived image: 3.jpg]
you made those super tough ramp/bracket things. then you boxed them in even more. then you put the stud on. then you put the c-bracket over the stud. doesn't that lower the subframe a lot? at what level does the stud "bar" have to be with the rest of the length of the frame that they get tacked to… or does it matter?
Spooledup300z: (2012-05-21 09:38:16)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
As you guys stated, I will make up some type of washer on the bottoms of the bushing. I'm not gonna hack all that welding up for to flip them.
Switchback Motions: (2012-05-21 11:07:30)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Hack welding up? Did you weld your bushings in? You should just be able to drop the subframe, press the bushings out, press them back in the right way, and reinstall subframe.
Butter: (2012-05-21 11:49:54)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Yeah, just flip the subframe upside down, heat the pipe section thing up a little, and carefully beat them out with a hammer.
Also…
[archived image: kiss.gif]
juanchoturbo85z31: (2012-05-21 12:26:16)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
^^^^Butter, agreed.
JF
Spooledup300z: (2012-05-21 12:37:49)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Ok, I'll flip the bushings around, not sure when I'll get around to it, but I will post pics
BSRJIRONMAN: (2012-05-21 16:12:42)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
It does lower the REAR of the frame a bit. It's still a little less than installing the old style bushing however. It only matters if you know what you want, and how to go about it (purposely vague). As you can see in the picture, I'm not in to compliance/deflection lol. Did it make a noticeable difference? I haven't slid it yet, but I'll know more after the 24th :yahoo . It drives great otherwise though (beside the expected "tracking" from an eyeball-alignment).
BSRJIRONMAN: (2012-05-21 16:23:25)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Be ready for additional notching as well, now that you're bringing all the mounting points closer to the frame :barbare
Spooledup300z: (2012-05-21 21:25:16)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
[quote]BSRJIRONMAN wrote:
Ok, I'll flip the bushings around, not sure when I'll get around to it, but I will post pics
Be ready for additional notching as well, now that you're bringing all the mounting points closer to the frame :barbare
I know.... I just looked at it, I think I am going to make up some type of washer, 1/2" isn't that important to me, I not into all that extreme low, drift geometry stuff, just a hardcore street car, that likes to visit the drag strip on weekends.
Here's a question, what stops the factory rubber rear subframe bushings from falling out?
Spooledup300z: (2012-05-21 21:36:43)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
nah I didnt weld the bushings in, I will have to cut more out of the notches
Careless: (2012-05-21 23:18:55)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
[quote]Spooledup300z wrote: [quote=BSRJIRONMAN]
Ok, I'll flip the bushings around, not sure when I'll get around to it, but I will post pics
Be ready for additional notching as well, now that you're bringing all the mounting points closer to the frame :barbare
I know.... I just looked at it, I think I am going to make up some type of washer, 1/2" isn't that important to me, I not into all that extreme low, drift geometry stuff, just a hardcore street car, that likes to visit the drag strip on weekends.
Here's a question, what stops the factory rubber rear subframe bushings from falling out?
the "subframe stays" that bolt to the floor pan.
Rambo69: (2012-05-22 01:52:20)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
My subframe is still in mock up stage, will be adding a thick washer to the underside of the forward bushings to tie everything together. My fabricator has been building "hardcore street cars" and full race cars for years and is without a doubt qualified, I will however post a full write-up one everything has been completed.
Ps. Stay tuned ForzaMotorsport fans.......
OK85ZX: (2012-05-22 01:58:31)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Why add a washer when you can just install it properly? Someone can claim qualified all they want, but if they put bushings like that in improperly, and maintain that they are correct, I would stop using their services immediately.
G-E: (2012-05-22 02:41:25)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
"properly" is up for debate, the z31 subframe has 3 attachment points all with far more movement than the s13's
and as the trailing arms attach near the outside mounts, the center mount acts as a pivot for the deflection, which means more stress… if the s13 subframe is adequately supported (ie. torqued down) each mount point will take less side load
Spooledup300z: (2012-05-22 09:45:19)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I'm not sure if installing these bushings incorrectly defines his installers skills. This is something that could easily happend ie: in my installation. IMO if a person makes a mistake it means that there doing things instead of collecting parts.
OK85ZX: (2012-05-22 23:51:47)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
That's why I said "if they maintain that they are correct", meaning it wasn't just a mistake during install. If a person makes a mistake and fixes it, that's great. If a person makes a mistake and it is brought to his attention, then he goes on to say that it is actually correct… he is either being willfully ignorant, or being deceitful to get out of doing the work to correct it. Either of the latter two options being someone to stay far away from. The way he introduced the installer to the conversation by stating his credentials led me to believe that he was insinuating the installer believes his installation is correct… which is why I said what I did. If the installer just made a mistake I see no reason for him to have brought his credentials into the conversation.
G-E: (2012-05-23 00:31:32)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
EXACTLY, too often the wrong things have been done by people with long and illustrious credentials, who are too stubborn to admit they screwed up…
Rambo69: (2012-05-23 00:38:53)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Reason behind the "inverted" bushing is get as low as possible. We have made additional mods to the stock Z frame rails to accommodate this as well, also we are using the OEM washers that would normally be on the S14 to sandwich everything together.
Switchback Motions: (2012-05-23 00:44:58)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the "inverted" bushing make the ride height higher instead of lower as your subframe is now gapped off the chassis by the actual bottom of the bushing?
G-E: (2012-05-23 00:49:34)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
the coilovers lower the car, changing the angles of every arm… raise the subframe and it would be like raising the car
Switchback Motions: (2012-05-23 01:15:33)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
[quote]G-E wrote:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the "inverted" bushing make the ride height higher instead of lower as your subframe is now gapped off the chassis by the actual bottom of the bushing?the coilovers lower the car, changing the angles of every arm… raise the subframe and it would be like raising the car
But if you raise the subframe in relation to the ground it would tuck it up more effectively making the car lower. If you have that 1/2" of the bushing spacing between the chassis and subframe then you lose that 1/2" of extra lowering (if you go that low) that you would get from coilovers. The bushings are intended for S-chassis, so why not install them the way they would fit on an S-chassis that isn't running coilovers? Just my 2 cents.
Butter: (2012-05-23 02:51:48)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Guys, the subframe has no bearing on the ride height. But if you don't tuck it up as far as you can to the chassis, the angles on all the arms will not be desirable. Especially, on a lowered car.
Switchback Motions: (2012-05-23 02:58:25)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
That's right. I'm being full blown today. Long story short tho, they have an intended orientation for a reason. If it was better to install them upside down, everyone would.
MADMIKE: (2012-05-23 07:39:27)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
/Threadjack/
Is anyone using Stance GR+ Pros?
/End Threadjack
adamvann3: (2012-05-23 13:59:16)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I do
Rambo69: (2012-05-23 16:56:53)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
[quote]adamvann3 wrote:
/Threadjack/
Is anyone using Stance GR+ Pros?
/End Threadjack
I do
Same
RXGhost: (2012-05-23 21:04:17)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I am also
badboyz31: (2012-05-23 22:09:40)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I got GR+ Pro SS-D's with 12k springs front and rear with helpers!
1sikz: (2012-05-23 22:10:27)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
You have them, or you have them in the mail?
badboyz31: (2012-05-23 22:24:33)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
[quote]1sikz wrote:
I got GR+ Pro SS-D's with 12k springs front and rear with helpers!
You have them, or you have them in the mail?
they are in the mail, same difference :nanan?re
it was a very vague question hahaha
1sikz: (2012-05-24 01:51:26)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Yeah, I was just messing with you. I've been waiting for my euro bumper lights that were "shipped out" in late January.
Pauls: (2012-06-10 04:34:07)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
ok so I am waiting arrival of my stance coilovers with s14 lowers & s13 coils along with new brakes and rotors before I can get my mechanic started on this upgrade.
Noticed the additional wedge that sits between the subframe and body which looks like a good idea.
So I have two questions;
1. how have you found the wedge to work? more solid ride?
2. I am going to go with s15 subframe(wider) & s14 front & rear LCA's, arms etc.. so what kind of offset wheels should I be looking for?
I am currently running 350z touring wheels and they sit nicely in the cali guards, but my stance will be wider now and want new wheels to sit in guards but obviously clear coilovers.
Cheers,
Paul
G-E: (2012-06-10 06:35:59)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
when you get the parts, put them together and measure
ShamWow: (2012-06-11 16:43:57)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
^"The wedge" vs. "the stack" (see installation on pg 14-15) will be identical in function.
once tacked, the rear cross bar is cut into pcs to form "the stack"
millsaps: (2012-06-28 18:16:05)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
will there be any more of these produced?
Butter: (2012-06-28 19:27:06)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34231
cesar: (2012-06-29 05:43:28)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Hey guys just got done with my s13 subframe swap and as I was unloading the subframe to get poweder coated I notice that the subframe had a little tear/crack where one of the rear bushing sits. It seems like the subframe opened up a tad bit when pressing the solid bushing in. The subframe is already poweder coated should I clean it off and weld it or should I be fine? The tear its about 1/4 of an inch.
aceman: (2012-06-29 06:19:32)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
any crack or tear is obviously a weak point, weld it and grind it smooth
cesar: (2012-06-29 07:24:30)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Yeah I cant see it with the powder coating on. I will grind it down clean it up and probably weld a little plate around becuase if I weld that little tear most of the heat will go towards the bushing and I dont know if it will take the that well heat even though i will be done in like 3 seconds lol.
Careless: (2012-06-29 15:30:48)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
the bushing can take the heat fine if it's a solid aluminum bushing. you don't have to do it in one go. zap zap zap.
and just paint it with high gloss epoxy paint of some sort. it will match the powder coating pretty well.
Pauls: (2012-07-28 14:02:10)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
installing an s15 subframe with the stance bushes so there is no bushing spacer at the top, bringing the subframe much closer to body meaning more notching :-(.
My concern is creating a square notch so the rear upper control arm join can clear, Iooks obvious that aftermarket work has occurred.
I would like to smooth this out by cutting on the visible seam along the middle of the rail. This will leave one step up point in the rail but then will flow smoothly into the front part of the rail.
Although the face of the rail will be trimmed down and re-attached sealing the rail, my biggest concern is halving the height of the rail over this area and subsequent strength of the rail being reduced.
Attached pic with notching that I need to make deeper along with proposed new cut. Black vertical bar on the rear of image is the shock absorber.
Any thoughts on this guys?
Thanks.
BSRJIRONMAN: (2012-07-28 15:47:42)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I may be misunderstanding you, but I believe i did exactly what you're planning. I just boxed it in really well afterwards. When I'm at my computer, I'll see about pictures.
Pauls: (2012-08-16 21:54:36)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I'm welding everything up this weekend. I take it this thread is dead, as no action for some time now…
G-E: (2012-08-17 01:16:17)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
It slowed because the mounting kits made a bunch of people feel motivated… when the kits dried up so did the half-interested people
There will be a resurgence with new kits
ShamWow: (2012-08-17 12:13:04)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
the lack of people actually installing them may have contributed to the threads dormancy..
Butter: (2012-08-17 12:45:55)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
The next batch needs to be shipped in saltwater soaked cardboard.
bleakdragonmage: (2012-08-17 13:25:08)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I don't like the fact that the people that arent going to use them are selling them for 2x what they paid… And yes i understand supply and demand.
I want another run of these so I can get one at a price that isn't complete rape.
Pauls: (2012-08-19 22:39:10)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
[quote]bleakdragonmage wrote:
the lack of people actually installing them may have contributed to the threads dormancy..
I don't like the fact that the people that arent going to use them are selling them for 2x what they paid… And yes i understand supply and demand.
I want another run of these so I can get one at a price that isn't complete rape.
hmmm that's not very community now is it.
As I am in Australia I scored mine second hand for I think $200 which was very fair.
shipping cost me $160 though and had a bit of surface rust which seems to be an issue with many z's I've seen in the USA.
In comparison most of the AU cars - like mine, are rust free.
All my welding is now done, just need to clean it all up next weekend.
I also ended up buying some more 3" metal sheets and rather than cutting the sheet the 2X bolts weld onto, I went all across with 1 piece and backed this with 4 other sheets that stepped out in length.
This way I get to use the old diff anchor points for additional strength/anchoring of amended structure.
Just had to shorten one of the petrol tank supports which was easy.
I also had custom bushes made for the top of subframe all round giving me another 7mm clearance so less rail intrusion.
Will post some pics when cleaned up, however I think this looks more factory finish now.
Here's a link to my post which has an image of the test fit: http://www.zdriver.com.au/index.php?/to … 0#entry260
Careless: (2012-08-20 01:04:21)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
no one wants to be forced to register to see what you're talking about.
post the pictures here for ease of discussion.
Greasedmonkey: (2012-08-20 04:32:21)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
[quote]bleakdragonmage wrote:
the lack of people actually installing them may have contributed to the threads dormancy..
I don't like the fact that the people that arent going to use them are selling them for 2x what they paid… And yes i understand supply and demand.
I want another run of these so I can get one at a price that isn't complete rape.
THis.
manrossdamn: (2012-08-20 05:44:23)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
[quote]Greasedmonkey wrote: [quote=bleakdragonmage]
the lack of people actually installing them may have contributed to the threads dormancy..
I don't like the fact that the people that arent going to use them are selling them for 2x what they paid… And yes i understand supply and demand.
I want another run of these so I can get one at a price that isn't complete rape.
THis.
THIS
ShamWow: (2012-08-20 15:32:24)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Wow, I wouldnt have done that. If you lower your car and raise the subframe, geometry is corrected. You have done the opposite…
Pauls: (2012-08-21 11:48:55)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Sorry, just realised pics don't show unless your registerred.
I'll look into removing that restriction.
Cheers.
Pauls: (2012-08-27 01:19:01)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Guess its just me here.. Man I underestimated the amount of work that goes into this upgrade.
Spending a number of hours on the weekends alone isnt the most productive approach.
final touch ups and seam sealer went on this weekend, hope to get body deadener sprayed on next weekend and subframe sprayed and if I'm lucky installed, however expect install to happen following weekend.
Will upload pics coming weekend. I didnt cut the 3" bar that the 2 main bolts connect to. Think it looks much better and more solid. Extra same spec metal cost and weighs peanuts.
here is a test fit pre-welding.
Pauls: (2012-09-02 10:19:29)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Here is my kit install now ready for subframe to be installed.
Don't know why no one in USA has done this, but I made sure leveraged off the two diff mounts as well.
[attachment=0:29nhfxgj]z31-ready-for-s15-subframe.JPG[/attachment:29nhfxgj]
Pauls: (2012-09-06 03:06:21)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
don't everyone all comment at once :nanan?re
Pauls: (2012-09-08 13:54:33)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
subframe and arms are all installed.
Only issue is coilover clearance on rear arm is too close and cat fit bolt head.
think will need to grind back bold, re-inforce so is flatter and also grind some of the knuckle and put a washer on the other side, so arm is pulled away from coilover by a few mil.
[attachment=1:30na31xs]s15-z31-suspension.JPG[/attachment:30na31xs]
[attachment=0:30na31xs]z31-s15-coilover-clearance.JPG[/attachment:30na31xs]
any recomendations?
Butter: (2012-09-09 04:35:06)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Are the front 2 links adjusted properly?
G-E: (2012-09-09 04:59:07)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
The traction rod needs to be let out more
Pauls: (2012-09-09 10:09:51)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Thanks guys.
I havent made any adjustments to any of the arms, however even with adjustments the coilover mount point & traction arm mount points wont change as they are fixed to knuckle. its pretty close to the base of the coilover, so adjustments wont provide enough movement to achieved desired clearance.
ShamWow appears to have had the same issue and ground the knuckle back.
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p280 … DC0660.jpg
I have cut a few mils of the inner part of the knuckle, put it on the other side and welded it back on along with some re-inforcement.
This now gives me room for the bolt head and clearance of the coilover base.
G-E: (2012-09-09 23:33:52)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Are your front subframe mount points too low maybe? The only thing I can think of if the arms are maxxed out is your subframe is tilted too much
ShamWow: (2012-09-10 12:16:08)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
You need to adjust the traction and toe arms.
Pauls: (2012-09-10 12:38:01)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Thanks for the reply.
Does the mount point for the rear toe arm still need to be modified still like you did?
I just cant see how adjusting toe and traction arms will make enough difference and give me an extra say 2cm's clearance for the bolt nut etc.
ShamWow: (2012-09-10 14:16:03)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Adjusting the traction arm will rotate the knuckle to a new location.
You may still need to grind and use low profile hardware
DMANN: (2012-09-11 00:00:00)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Word…I did not have this problem?
With either the stock s13 goddies or the z32 alum arms.
What did you do to help the mounting points form your shocks on the z?
I made angled pieces to put the shocks on a angle to avoid bind, but do not have a prob. In your regards?
I do remember when 1st test fitting everything I had binding issues with some bits, but this kit was not available then.
Pauls: (2012-09-11 11:18:12)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
do you have any pics of your install?
DMANN: (2012-09-11 23:03:00)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Somewhere???
It was straight forward…cut and boxed, on the frame, 7/8 bolts through the back bar thingy, square bar and drilled a hole through it for the ext, for the front mounts. All aftermarket adjustable arms, r32 brakes and bearings, D2 coil overs.
badboyz31: (2012-09-12 00:37:41)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
this also depends on the coils, I noticed with stance coils the tubes down at the bottom are thicker than some other coils, I have the same problems with the coil slightly rubbing the bolt for the toe arm, I haven't got my other SPL arms in yet so I can test and see if adjusting will fix the problem for me, but I'm sure it will!!
cesar: (2012-09-13 05:30:42)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I had the same issue with the knuckles. In my case the front mounts moved a little while welding and where about 1 inch lower when I mounted the subframe. So I bolted the rear first and used a jack to lift the two front mounts on the subframe. Luckely for me it stayed in place bolted everything up and had the same issue as you. What I did was run the bolt in the other direction adjusted all of my arms and have enough space inbetween. Should be up and running next month hopefully I don't have no issues with the subframe and suspension because of this.
Pauls: (2012-09-13 07:49:07)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
yeah I thought the stance coilover base appeared quite wide, which is whats causing my issue.
Not a biggie, just need to cut 1/3rd off the knuckle and move it to the back. Only issue is then need a new bushing installed.
That way have enough clearance and bolt will still run away from coilover.
Butter: (2012-09-13 11:36:12)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Maybe you guys aren't mounting the sub as far up as possible, with a slight nose up tilt?
I have tons of space around my Tanabes, and would still have plenty of room if Stance was there.
ShamWow: (2012-09-13 15:30:38)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
^ Yes but with relocated strut towers…
I'm telling you guys, if you set the links right (get an alignment), it just takes a little grinding and some low profile hardware like I showed.
Spooledup300z: (2012-09-13 17:25:19)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
If I get a chance when I get home, I'll take some pics, seems like the issue that a lot of guys on here are having is due to an alignment. When installing the aftermarket links, adjust them to the stock length and go from there. I have full clearance and have all the stock hardware except for the eccentric lock out bolts, which everyone should have once aftermarket links are installed.
The rear arms are all stance links
Spooledup300z: (2012-09-13 20:58:10)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
The wheels are enkei bortex's 17x9 in the rear, the eccentric bolts https://www.splparts.com/store/product- … id252.html.
Pauls: (2012-09-14 11:40:33)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
interesting, I set my aftermarket arms to stock arm lengths and its still too close.
I have already modified one knuckle and tomorrow will do the same to the second.
Its a small mod really. take 1/3rd off the mount and re-weld it on the opposite side.
This then lets me mount as normal with standard hardware and no issues.
As am using s15 subframe with stance offset bushes, I have no upper bushing. I therefore created custom 5mil bushes for front and back allowing more body clearance.
Having looked at some installs the subframe comes extremely close to the body rails up front, whereas my s15 subframe has decent clearance up front.
Pauls: (2012-10-03 15:09:23)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
knuckles moded and all is well.
need to look into r33 ebrake now and install s15 helicoil diff and shafts.
Careless: (2012-10-03 15:33:33)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
helical*
Pauls: (2012-10-16 10:49:50)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
[quote]Careless wrote:
knuckles moded and all is well.
need to look into r33 ebrake now and install s15 helicoil diff and shafts.
helical*
Yeah, I get that wrong
Pauls: (2012-10-25 22:22:05)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
I've sourced r33 skyline e-brake setup with cables.
Installed r/h side and fits nicely.
Need to do the left and then figure out how to run/connect up cables.
Any recommendations/links?
Cheers.
Spooledup300z: (2012-10-29 13:24:05)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Do you searches, we covered all of this expensively
Pauls: (2012-11-12 03:09:52)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Does anyone have a link or diagram for petrol tank fuel lines? Of course I didn't label them when removing tank! so not sure which tank hose goes to left or right line on the car.
E-Z: (2012-11-17 11:31:04)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
does anybody know how this would go in the Y31 cima with the r200 longnose? i can supply a pic of the stock subframe if needed to compare?
G-E: (2012-11-17 11:40:37)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
Should be similar to the R31.. it's very similar to ours but everything is a little different
E-Z: (2012-11-17 11:49:16)
Re: S13/S14/S15 Subframe Conversion Kit GB-STANCE MULTILINK!
ok sweet, so i could use the guides etc here to basically make my own to suit, thankyou so much! very happy as i bought a z32 TT frame to do before even researching (wider i know but the cima is very wide)
K_Scheeringa: (2013-03-01 13:15:05)
Ok, so i have a question for everyone.. I'm doing my own set up similar to this:
Also using the new style stance solid bushings which push the rear mount up tight to the underside of the cross member.
and would like to know at what level people are setting their front mount, distance wise from the stock mounting point to the top of the S13/S14/Z32 or whatever front mounting point. As seen in this diagram:
I'm not lowering my car, so pushing everything up as tight as possible is not imperative, would i be better off putting a spacer above the rear mount and doing less frame notching?
Set up is as follows:
S13 subframe
S13 sway bar
Q45 uprights, arms, diff and 1 half shaft
1 Z32 half shaft
z32 struts with stock springs
Q45 brakes
Careless: (2013-03-01 16:09:17)
maybe this will/won't help. in regards to the rear bushing height (which is also up for debate as to how high it should be, in relation to the front/subframe pitch)- when I asked- i got this asinine reply.
i guess you have to know exactly what you want :-/
Butter: (2013-03-01 17:22:46)
Always, ALWAYS push it up as high as you can in the rear. The front will determine the tilt, which is up to personal preference, as it has an effect on the character of the car (adjusts traction). Mine has a slight nose up tilt.
This enables all your links to have a pretty nice geometry with a lowered car, and to mimic how it normally sits in an S13 at stock ride height.
DeleriousZ: (2013-03-01 17:30:52)
giggity…
Careless: (2013-03-01 18:56:58)
just thinking out loud here.. doesn't the rear limit the adjustability of the front? how much articulation does fastening the rear up as high as possible allow you to have in the front with solid bushings? i figure the studs would bind in the bushings and not allow for much adjustment at the front… how much are we talking here? 5 degrees +/- from dead even?
G-E: (2013-03-01 19:26:55)
Doesn't matter if he welds the mounts in like that… only matters if he changes the angle AFTER
K_Scheeringa: (2013-03-01 23:25:19)
I guess the big question is what is supposed to be the offset between front and back? Does moving it up or down increase traction, and what are the side effects?
Butter: (2013-03-02 01:01:49)
I'll jump dump this link to make it stinky in here.
http://www.nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=2296
Careless: (2013-03-02 01:54:21)
well yeah, that's what I mean. what if you want to adjust it later?
K_Scheeringa: (2013-03-02 04:18:36)
Time to start reading.. lol…
akurtzer57: (2013-03-03 00:47:01)
Are these kits still available?
rangerkid: (2015-03-12 03:33:38)
I know this post has been dead for a while, but is there any way we could ever get these kits going again?
adamvann3: (2015-03-13 02:30:54)
I highly doubt Mike will ever be making this kit again
G-E: (2015-03-13 08:15:38)
http://responsetype.com/product-cate…/fairlady-z31/
zachary.ard: (2015-03-14 06:58:07)
I highly doubt Mike will ever be making this kit again
If you get the chance you might want to ask him about that.
zachary.ard: (2015-03-24 16:49:27)
http://z31performance.com/showthread…-Kit-Group-Buy
adamvann3: (2015-03-24 18:21:56)
If you get the chance you might want to ask him about that.
I talked to him a bit ago. I know whats going on. Mike will never reproduce this kit again [archived image: smile.png]
G-E: (2015-03-27 02:11:28)
Just a reminder, my subframe swap kit is in stock at $175 until I finalize all the prices here: http://responsetype.com/shop/gazelle…me-swap-kit-1/
Also who wants to save unsprung weight by using Z32/Q45 aluminum uprights, get the coilover adapter for $89 here: http://responsetype.com/shop/silvia-…strut-adapter/
[archived image: upright-kit-installed.jpg]
Be cool like amreboot … you can see both of these in his build thread [archived image: wink.png]
http://z31performance.com/showthread…l=1#post368156
amreboot: (2015-03-27 02:57:20)
[archived image: 20150127_154056_zpsn6mjwabn.jpg]
A link to my build page
http://z31performance.com/showthread…l=1#post367207
ShamWow: (2015-03-27 17:11:18)
I find it a tad insulting that you would post that in my thread.
0.2
amreboot: (2015-03-27 17:53:35)
Sorry if that insults you.
Your kit wasn't around when I did mine.
I am merely trying to encourage others to do the swap by showing off my setup.
Butter: (2015-03-27 18:43:38)
I think he's referring to this…
Just a reminder, my undercutters special copy of Mike G's subframe swap kit is in stock at $175 until I realize nobody wants it with the GB running on the full kit from ASCO. But, ehhhh, I'll still shamelessly hawk it in Mike G's own thread. Hopefully I can F up that group buy too so it pisses off ASCO enough to drop their group buy like Mike did.
amreboot: (2015-03-27 19:07:11)
Oh I see. Gotcha.
G-E: (2015-03-27 19:37:13)
So I shouldn't be insulted when I introduce a replacement for a kit that's no longer in production, replenish stock a few times to keep up, and then someone decides to make another directly competing kit?
I picked up where you left off Mike, I tried not to compete with ASCO directly, I don't seem to get the same courtesy…
ShamWow: (2015-03-27 19:52:03)
The things i consider impolite:
-copy of design without courtesy of asking me about it. Certainly nothing legally wrong but not a gentlemans move.
-making that posting in this specific thread. From a business perspective this is impolite.
A seperate topic all together, but i am also not impressed with the design or quality of your copy. I would not consider it "picking up where i left off". However, probably not worth the breath. based on 1 and 2 above you do not value my opinion.
G-E: (2015-03-27 20:11:21)
I think you're confused, I didn't copy your design, there just happens to be a necessary similarity for serving the same function… you may have noticed it's a lot less complicated with a lot less welding required.
I don't understand what you don't like about it, I know you expressed some worry about using hardened pins, but I know 3 people that have stripped threads on your kit for being mild steel so.....
NJ_Born_95: (2015-03-28 19:14:05)
I find it a tad insulting that you would post that in my thread.
0.2
+1 trying to sell your own product in someone else's thread is just low.
G-E: (2015-03-28 21:53:08)
Up until a week ago, this thread was effectively dead back in 2012, so don't point your fingers too hard…
jaqattack02: (2015-03-28 23:11:44)
Up until a week ago, this thread was effectively dead back in 2012, so don't point your fingers too hard…
How does that change it being a thread about someone else's similar product? It also doesn't excuse your "convenient" timing in making the post.
G-E: (2015-03-29 01:30:49)
Go back a few pages (aka years) and you'll see people moaning about extortion prices for unused kits.
Go back to post #537 and he's already using my components to do his swap because the other kits have stopped changing hands.
Go back just a page to rangerkidd's question about anyone producing them, which only I was…
In short, this stopped being a groub-buy thread long ago and just because it's visible people migrated to it to ask generic questions.
Why was it ok to remind people I sell a kit on the 13th, but not on the 27th?
zachary.ard: (2015-03-30 15:35:51)
I'm going to address this directly - mainly because ASCO was dragged into this.
Paul - you've been very clear in advertising the kit(s) you offer for quite some time. That's why I really didn't have too much interest in offering anything in this line, we have our own fish to fry on the products we are developing in-house for the Z31 and other platforms, and the products we offer for sale currently. We all bring something to the buffet line, and people choose what they want off the buffet with their wallets.
However, by some of the comments that have been posted in various places (Facebook, Z31P WTB thread, etc.) with people wanting the MikeG kit designed as originally offered, all I did was simply ask Mike if he was going to revive his kit. He approached me with an arrangement, and now we have the group buy. I'm confused as to why you didn't do this to be honest? Working with Mike has been super easy, and I'm glad I could collaborate with him on this project.
So no - this is not just "another directly competing kit", this is the original kit as designed by Mike, not a knockoff, redesign, or anything else other than a re-issue of the original.
As for posting your kit advertisement in here after this group buy was announced, that's between you and Mike as this is his original thread and he has a stake in the success of the group buy on this re-issued swap kit. I would say that if I announced product sales on your threads, you'd probably not be thrilled about it though - so I suppose there is that angle to consider. I won't remove the post though.
G-E: (2015-03-30 20:12:54)
I'll just end this thread with one thing. I hope I was clear that I wasn't attacking ASCO (perhaps the timing since I just restocked on mine) or the product, I know there are people that chose certain varieties of products for whatever personally held beliefs they have…
I didn't offer a MikeG style unwelded kit because frankly I couldn't see any serious demand over the usual dreamers that don't actually do the swap. Between MikeG's and my kit, there should be at least 60 people with swaps driving around, yet I have only (informally) heard of say 20ish.
The other side of the coin is that most of the people who argued against my kit were people who argued against nearly all of my products, how then do I separate which is serious and which isn't?
Anyway your gb is a success assuming people pay, so good job.
zdriver_kado: (2015-03-30 20:45:13)
I gotta say… SPL! If I were a drifter Stance would be more than adequate.
I'm doing z32 rear … cause race car.
zachary.ard: (2015-04-02 04:39:40)
We are at 19 kits pre-ordered guys! Also - this includes a few people who will be buying sets and performing installs for Z31 owners in their local areas.
6 more spots remaining!
zachary.ard: (2015-04-13 14:11:45)
Just a heads up to those interested or those participating - these are all in production right now! Hope to have them ready in hand to ship within a few weeks!
zachary.ard: (2015-04-18 04:38:59)
Cranking out parts tonight!
The Monk: (2015-05-16 00:06:21)
Is the group buy still available?
zachary.ard: (2015-05-18 03:32:01)
Yes it is - heres the link for more details!
http://store.acadianasportscars.com/blog/subframeswap
The Monk: (2015-05-19 18:35:56)
Before I get it I want to know more about the kaaz lsd has anybody bought it, and if so is it worth it?
Axel kain: (2015-05-19 19:26:52)
yes and yes. please dont thread jack.
zachary.ard: (2015-07-02 04:15:42)
Great news - kits will be shipping after the Independence Day weekend holiday!
The Monk: (2015-11-25 19:41:19)
I know it's been a while but I'm ready to be a part of the group buy.
260DET: (2016-05-31 22:34:59)
Just back on the scene and I'm not going to read through 38 pages so a couple of questions before I buy. Does the ride height of the car change when using this kit, if so by how much by up or down. And, does the wheelbase of the car remain the same?
When I did a similar conversion to a 280ZX, to get the cradle up high enough certain parts of the under body had to be 'relieved' for clearance.
zachary.ard: (2016-05-31 23:09:09)
If you mean do you have to notch the frame rails - then yes, there will be some cutting involved. The kit simply provides the fabricated components you would otherwise have to source, but this does cutting and measuring your car for proper fitment.
260DET: (2016-06-01 00:27:22)
Frame had to notched on the 280ZX too so that's no problem. other than that sort of mod I'm OK to assume than that OE ride height and wheelbase will remain the same?
adamvann3: (2016-06-01 19:20:06)
Wheelbase will increase depending on what subframe you choose to go with, z31, s13, s14 ect…
Most people switch over to adjustable suspension in which ride height variability can be taken care of. Never validated but should be around the same.
260DET: (2016-06-01 22:47:23)
Thanks for that info adamvann3.
rahiemsupreme1: (2018-01-22 22:46:44)
can't see photos? where can I buy subframe swap kit?
G-E: (2018-02-05 21:07:47)
Hey look I'm not banned anymore....
I just posted on Z31 Online group, swap kits are in very very short supply, three of the Type 1 kits (2 pins 2 sleeves) and none of the Type 2 (4 pins) kits left